Two Must Read Articles
Both of these articles were written completely independently of each other. They were written at different times, by different men, in different countries. But what caught my eye when I read them back to back last night was the amount of similar ground they covered... how much they dovetail together, especially regarding the feasts. Both also address the complex issues many of us are wrestling with right now. I encourage you to take the time to read both... they are not short but they you will learn a lot!
These guys have done their research and I have been blessed by both repeatedly while on this journey... I am sure you will be too.
Article 1
This is Gary's first post since the alignment. In it he addresses the mockers and takes a fresh look at the feast days and the use of trumpets in Bible. He also spends time breaking down the Jubilee and how Lev 25:9 calls for the blowing of the shophar [God's trumpet] throughout the land. This is a once in 50 year event that seems to be set for this coming Saturday.
Gary breaks it down for us in a very informative and logical way.
Putting The Pieces Together: Part 2 - Unsealed
Article 2
This article was actually written last week (prior to 9/23). Greg usually puts out his articles at a different time of the month so I think with all the excitement last week many of us missed it. Greg dives deeper into some questions he had regarding the feasts and lays out some information that dovetailed with what Gary just wrote. (Gary hadn't read this yet so I found that very interesting). He also investigates some of Scott's interpretations from his conference presentation and lays out some additional points we should consider on these matters. I believe that this article will really help balance our thinking as we all strive to find the truth and wait for Christ's soon return.
If you don't remember, Greg lovingly warned everyone a while ago that Feast of Trumpets had some potential problems and many people didn't want to hear it. I personally think it is time to listen closer to what he has to say and appreciate his commitment to following his convictions wherever they lead.
Sweet Hour of Prayer - Greg Lauer | September 2017
IMPORTANT NOTE: In one portion of Greg's article he describes not being able to find a source for Scott's statement that dusk is considered the "Twinkling of an Eye" per a Jewish idiom. After reading the article I simply texted Scott and was promptly sent the link below. So when you get to that part you can click below and see it for yourself. I have sent this to Greg, perhaps he can add it to his article to help people out and make sure they don't get the wrong impression.
http://torahcalendar.com/hour.asp
(UPDATE: Greg put up an addendum... you can read that here.)
Article 1
Putting The Pieces Together: Part 2 - Unsealed
Article 2
If you don't remember, Greg lovingly warned everyone a while ago that Feast of Trumpets had some potential problems and many people didn't want to hear it. I personally think it is time to listen closer to what he has to say and appreciate his commitment to following his convictions wherever they lead.
Sweet Hour of Prayer - Greg Lauer | September 2017
IMPORTANT NOTE: In one portion of Greg's article he describes not being able to find a source for Scott's statement that dusk is considered the "Twinkling of an Eye" per a Jewish idiom. After reading the article I simply texted Scott and was promptly sent the link below. So when you get to that part you can click below and see it for yourself. I have sent this to Greg, perhaps he can add it to his article to help people out and make sure they don't get the wrong impression.
http://torahcalendar.com/hour.asp
(UPDATE: Greg put up an addendum... you can read that here.)
I tend to agree with Greg. Let's look at what we know:
ReplyDelete* 1 Cor 15:51-53 talks about the rapture. It says "the trumpet shall sound", but that's very vague. The "last trump" could mean a lot of different things. (After all, every time a date is set and doesn't happen, someone comes up with a new interpretation of what the "last trump" is.) There isn't enough information given to tell when the rapture will happen.
* 1 Thes 4:16-17 talks about the rapture. It mentions the "trump of God". That's not much to go on. I have no doubt that if nothing happens this weekend, someone will find a new interpretation for it. There are countless ways to interpret a vague fact.
With the exception of Rev 12, those are the only passages in the NT that talk about the rapture in detail. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John never mention it. Mt 24 doesn't mention it. All 1 Thes 5 says is that the tribulation (not the rapture!) will not take us by surprise - and since we're going to be raptured before it happens, that's obvious.
There are no passages that say we're going to know when the rapture will happen. It's entirely possible that Rev 3:3 is not talking about the rapture, but is talking about God's judgment on that church. (After all, when Rev 3:2 says to "be watchful", it is talking about obedience, not eschatology.) Every passage that says to "watch" is referring to tribulation saints watching for the end of the tribulation. In order to watch for the rapture we would need signs, and with the possible exception of Rev 12 there are no signs to watch for. (There are endless interpretations of the dragon sign because it's very vague and no one can pin down its meaning. You can't watch for something no one understands.)
Since we have so little to work with, it will always be possible to come up with a new theory that fits the few facts we know. But there's no reason to believe any of these theories.
I firmly believe the rapture will happen. I think Greg is right, though: I don't believe we can know the date. We just don't have enough information.
Jonathan
Thanks Jonathan. Keep in mind that Greg also said he thinks the rapture will happen on a Biblical day.... a special day. This weekend could just fit the bill... we shall see! Some of the videos pointing to this weekend were made many weeks ago and have a lot of weight to them. So there is a balance.... Walking this tight rope isn't easy, but it does seem to me that God is giving us more information as we go... the last thing I want to do it disregard all we have learned to this point because it is too hard... Each day reveals more and more info... even by the process of elimination we have learned so much.
DeleteYour Thoughts?
Jonathan, how comes that rapture isn't mentioned in Matthew 24? What about verses 40-41? What else should this be if not rapture?
DeleteI had a question that came to my mind...if the rapture were to happen on Pentecost, and tribulation ensuing at that time...well, we know that the tribulation is numbered days...they are listed in scripture. Lot got taken out of Sodom...and immediately it was destroyed. I just do not see this "new gap theory" between the rapture and the tribulation. SO...if we were raptured on Pentecost and the tribulation started then...it would not seem to line up with the fall feasts 7 years later. Ya know what I mean?
DeleteHitting the notify...sorry for the extra post here.
DeleteMat 24 doesn't speak of the Rapture? "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken. and the other left" Annabel you are right. Read Mat 23, because all that needs to happen first. Last Trump is the 7th and Final Trumpet, the 3rd Woe! immediately preceding God's Wrath. Jesus is the Trump of God, trumping Satan, the Dragon, Serpent and Devil (Rev 12:9) Jesus explicitly warned would deceive the whole world.
DeleteHi Anabel. IMHO, the answer to your question is that one is taken away in judgment and removed from the earth, while the other is left to populate the millennial Kingdom. I, too, after many years, have come to the place where, IMHO, the rapture is no where in view in Matthew 24 & 25. Jewish Messiah, to Jewish disciples, who as yet had no concept of a rapture, which the Lord revealed through Paul at a point after Jesus had ascended. Jewish disciples who were asking about the Messianic Kingdom on earth, His second coming. Context, context, context. I don't think the parable of the 10 virgins is about the Church either. I believe they represent believing and unbelieving Jews at the end of the age. Some will go in to the Kingdom, and others will be left on the outside. Just my take after 34 years of walking with the Lord. Trying to force the rapture into those chapters just does not fit in my opinion. I know many others believe differently. These are two chapters that I believe have caused much confusion in the body.
DeleteAnonymous, TY for your kind reply. Please then explain what Matthew 24:45-51 is talking only about during tribulation period and not during endtimes now. What kind of "servants" should that be who "feed the flock IN DUE SEASON or not"? What "delay" of His coming does He refer to if not what we just saw NOW? What (different) "seasons" should that be mentioned if not several states of knowledge and urgency in church age? During just 7 years of tribulation period there will be exactly 1 message ONLY preached (and not by men but by ANGELS): and this is Revelation 14:6-12. No other gospel, no extra "food" of scripture knowledge or exegesis. So what is Jesus talking about then here if not about church age?
DeleteFor what it's worth, I am pretty well convinced for a number of reasons that Matthew 24:41-42 does not speak of the Rapture, but rather the gathering of the Jewish remnant and Tribulation survivors at the Second Coming. I am not going to go into it in detail here and now, but that's what I believe. I don't believe this fits the Rapture at all, and I'm gonna keep saying it until I'm blue in the face:
DeleteI am of the belief that as soon as you read the Church anywhere into the Olivet Discourse, the wheels begin to come off.
Just my two shekels.
Annabel, this is a most confusing thread. Jesus and King David rule from Jerusalem with the followers of Jesus who come behind him at the 2nd Coming (Rev 19:7) during the Millennium (Eze 37-39) Gog and Magog is a rebellion at the end of the Millennium (Rev 20:7-8). What anonymous said above is exactly opposite of truth
DeleteI have enjoyed following all of Revelation 12 Daily's posts, but today Greg's post really hit home with me. I'm tired of being excited and elated one minute and in the depths of disappointment the next. It doesn't matter when He comes for us, but that He is coming... I will be using your "In the quiet of the morning" suggestions and will still look into His beautiful night sky, as I have enjoyed doing for years! MARANATHA...
ReplyDeleteWe are running a race... a the marathon with the greatest finish line we could ever imagine. Races are hard when we don't know where the exact finish line is... on our own this race would be impossible. But with Him all things are possible. Keep moving forward... the finish line could be just around the bend!
DeleteI wish I had read Greg's 2015 article from A Little Strength before 9-23-17. Because, it helps to take away the emphasis on setting a date and instead moving toward what His word says - loving His appearance. I think Greg is stating that he doesn't believe the rapture is tied to feast. If anything, he sees Pentecost as more plausible; but, he is saying he believes the rapture could happen at any time - and this is the emphasis. Period.
DeleteHey Brad. I don't understand why everyone cannot see what is happening here. All of the work of the watchmen is leading us to right where we need to be. Yes, it has been humbling as well as exciting, but I have always known we are on a need to know basis with His prophetic word and I have always known that we would know in time to be ready. And what an education all of you wonderful people of God have given us through His leading. My spirit is quickened almost continuously now. Each piece as it is added is not meant to disappoint, but rather to keep us even higher on our toes. Jesus is not one to lead a horse to water and then deny the creature's thirst. I know to be looking up right now and I am thanking God and praying for each and everyone of you watchmen to continue running with everything He is giving you. Love you all so much. See you REAL soon.
DeleteAMEN, Sheila! You read my thoughts. Much love to you sister! :)
DeleteRight back at you, special lady!
DeleteAgree Sheila/Annabel. These watchman are genuinely trying to rightly 'divide the word'. It is doing a great job of me having to lay down some old beliefs (such as trumpet blowing on the FoT), and allows me to take on new biblical understanding where I have previously lacked.
DeleteI did laugh at Greg's article however - as my dad had mentioned at Church last week the Karainites and lack of 'blowing of the trumpets' as they held to a literal interpretation of the scriptures. I thought that was interesting that even pastors (of all people:)) are studying these things in more depth than 'normal'.
Through and Through, when you say your dad, are you talking about pastor Charles Lawson? I have been watching a few of his vids today that specifically deals with the jews, talmud and the karainites. Funny “coincidence” that you mentioned it :)
DeletePatat7 sorry no central NZ, home of the mighty All Blacks😁
DeleteSo, was Greg a "scoffer" last week when he said there were "problems" w/ the Feast of Trumpets? Since no one knows when the hour will be, but are only guessing (and cherry-picking proof texts), people who disagree with setting dates should not be viewed as "scoffers." As i wrote earlier, even if one is using the Star of Bethlehem Sign as a template (which is speculative), the Holy Family did not flee to Egypt at Jesus' birth (Rosh Hashanah?), nor immediately after, but not until some time AFTER the circumcision (Yom Kippur?) which was 8 days after the birth. Since Herod ordered the death of all boys in Bethlehem under the age of 2, it stands to reason that the flight might not have occurred for up to 2 years after the birth.
ReplyDeleteI'm just saying...
It's not scoffing to lovingly disagree with someone. Scoffing is when you mock, ridicule, and falsely accuse someone with straw-men, so you can call them "false teachers", "false prophets", etc.
DeleteJesus was not born on Feast of Trumpets nor Circumcised on Yom Kippur; scripture tells us Jesus was born 6 months after John the Baptist who was born on Passover; 14 Nisan + 6 months=Feast of Tabernacles 15 Tishrei; Jesus was Circumcised on the 8th Day of Tabernacles because He was to fulfill every Jot and Tittle of the Law as the New Covenant Tabernacle of God.
DeleteWhat I like best about GREGs article is the red letter sentence "On the 24th it's over, and nobody is gonna listen to any word we say" - which clearly reminds me of the 'Days of Noah' parallel pattern as this now happens just 7 days prior to the flood going into the ark without any more preaching to people and for us prior to Jubilee trumpet / Yom Kippur / 7 days of Lev12 uncleanness with male child and Jesus' circumcision + naming + bringing to the temple on the 8th day (which would then be next Sunday from our perspective). As long as there's a chance to fulfill FoT I will be convinced of this. It is not without reason called a "solemn assembly" and "hidden moon" as the world will not take notice of it at all like prophecied in Matthew 24:39 and Luke 17:27 (only after, when it happened and people are missing of course). Rev12,1-sign must in fact have triggered the events following verses 2-5 somehow. If Father or Son are about to fulfill sth is no question to me as they are "1" anyway (John 10:30). Therefore good to compare with what GARY (unsealed.org) found out. We talk on Monday, be it still on earth or... ;-) Blessings! MARANATHA
ReplyDeleteI really think that most people don't listen to anything anyone says about these things any more anyway because over the years there have been so many people who have done the same thing that has been done this year. Yes, I know that there was the astronomical alignment, but I sure wish folks had left it at that and cut out all of the rapture/end of the world hype. It's just not a good witness. Also, we do not know when the year of Jubilee is as it was never observed because the rich stood to lose too much by observing it. We simply do not know when it is and we shouldn't be throwing that into the mix because some have tried to engineer a Jubilee for this year.
Delete"For there are 3 that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these 3 are one" 1 Jn 5:7KJV One step further "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the word was made flesh and dwelt among us" Jn 1:1; 14KJV These scriptures verify Jesus is God, the Word written infallibly at Creation. One step further "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" Rev 22:13 One more step JESUS Mat 1:25KJV is JAH Ps 68:4KJV and JEHOVAH (Ex 6:3) Notice in new bible versions Jesus and Jah are used instead of JESUS and JAH, the SPIRITUAL renderings.
DeleteThe point is the Word needs to be read without Interpretation.
Just a comment about Psalm 81:3...the phrase "blow the trumpet/shofar at the new moon.." is from those translations that emphasize Hebrew such as the Hebrew Names version, The HalleluYah Scriptures, Darby Translation and others. One can find these in the blue letter software, although the HalleluYah Scriptures is not in that software. I believe Scottie uses the HS bible. I mention this only to say the Scottie didn't pull it out of thin air, some translations of Psalm 81:3 say blow the shofar at the New Moon. As to the rest of the material in both of these articles...it's all a part of our joint efforts to rightly discern the Word...all very commendable to all of those watchmen who are earnestly trying to find answers. Lastly, if this type of examination of the Scriptures were happening weekly in most American churches, we would be having these friendly debates at church on Wednesday nights...but sadly, most pastors want NO PART of this study...so we are all left, as lay people, to work with each other to do that examination. And that, my brothers and sisters is commendable. Shalom
ReplyDeletePs 81:3 says "Blow the trumpet in the new moon, in the appointed time, on our solemn feast day" This is a specific day of the first Passover New Moon in Exodus 12; Rabbis interpret this as 1 Tishrei, the KJV as Abib 1. Important because Noah removed the covering of the Ark on this same day (Gen 8:13); the anniversary of Creation and anniversary of Jesus' Crucifixion, the beginning of the New Covenant
DeleteHoward, if you have a moment..could you point me to the scriptural connection to Exodus 12? I just re-read it and see references only to the 10th and 14th days of the first month. I couldn't find a new moon or the first day referenced in Ex 12. How do you connect Psalm 81:3 to Exodus 12? And by the way my name is Jeff and I live in So Cal...sorry about the Anonymous title. Thanks.
DeleteHey Jeff, I grew up in Costa Mesa myself. My Email is cratbs@aol.com Contact me and I can get you my ph# God's New Year is the New Moon after Spring Equinox i.e. beginning of months. Creation? 1st day of the 1st Month; the Sun, Moon and Earth lined up at the beginning. The opposite side of the calendar is what Satan uses "Rosh Hashanah"; Tishrei is the Assyrian-Babylonian month of "Beginning" Ex 12:2 is the instructions for the Passover Lamb before God rescued Israel from Egyptian captivity. Jesus would later become the Passover Lamb. Noah removed the Ark on the same day of the year "first month, first day" Gen 8:13.
DeleteA Year has never changed since God set the Sun in motion; a Jubilee is the 50th Year; Jesus returns as promised in the 120th Jubilee (6000th Year; 2 Pet 3:8); therefore is must be as Creation, Flood and Exodus were, at the New Moon Jubilee in Ps 81:3. Note the differences in the KJV and new bible versions of Ps 81:3KJV confuses this issue. Take Care Jeff.
That the tribulation saints are told to watch for the end of the tribulation seea more of a dubious position to appease the guilt of being accused of date setting,... if anyone doesn't need to watch for a date it would be the tribulation saints ,... they will have witnesses the rapture and be believers on the 7 year time period and all the revealed prophecies being fulfilled ,... me thinks the watch exhortations are for the parousia end times the launching of which is the parousia. The entire 7 years is encompassed in the parousia and its unfolding
ReplyDeleteYou're right, tribulation saints even have DAYS TO COUNT on exactly from a given starting point at mid-trib. See Daniel 12:11-12.
DeleteBrad - I think one of the key points (among many) that Greg was making regarding some of Scotts assumptions, is that they have to be grounded in the word of God. Its good that he had found the 'twinkling of an eye' concept from torahcalendar, but where did they get it from? Jesus referenced Rabbinic tradition often, but it wasn't always in the positive. If torahcalendar had taken their concept from rabbinic tradition, then we need to be extremely careful with rounding it off as being scriptural. People (sometimes unfortunately) do take the 'watchman's words as being gospel truth...something I am guilty of. The gentle rebuke from Greg is a timely one.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I believe that Jesus has every intention of revealing the day and the hour to the generation to whom it applies, but because of the origins of the current hebrew calendars and the fact that there is no calendar we can look up that is accurate to the day and hour that God intended it to be, “no man knows the day or the hour”! I am taking that out of context on purpose to prove a point, so no I don’t believe matt 24:36 is talking about the rapture. But I do think that because the Jews have not kept the feasts properly we don’t have a clue what time it is
DeleteEver since the day of the "great disappointment", I have not been able to get the song Blessed Assurance out of my mind. I could only recall the first verse, what with my half-heimers and all, so I finally dug out an old hymn book and read the rest of this beautiful song penned by that brilliant blind woman, Fanny J. Crosby. So appropriate for this place in time we are all in. I'm just gonna go all child-like here and say God knows exactly what time it is and I for one am hearing that alarm bell ring, pagan deities, religious traditions, and man-made calendars aside. Check out the song if you don't know or remember it all! It'll make you smile.
ReplyDeleteThe hymn has a line that says :Earth shall keep her Jubilee. Does anyone know what the author is referring to?
ReplyDeleteHi Charles. I believe that line is from the hymn "Jesus Saves". I would maybe assume that it was inspired by Romans.8:19-23, at least in part. At any rate, it sounds like a divine appointment of restoration to me.
DeleteThank you Shelia! I am just puzzled how Thad line got in the hymn, it almost seems prophetic
DeleteYes, Charles, He seems to be speaking to each of us in a lot of ways. 20 years ago when He pulled me out of 40 years in the wilderness, Blessed Assurance touched my heart and when my husband and I were making our wills, I stipulated I wanted the chorus of that hymn engraved on my head stone one day. Hadn't thought about that in a long time until this very week when the song got stuck in my head again and I felt as though the Lord was telling me that He'd decided to etch it on my heart instead and use it to speak to me about this time we are in. "Perfect submission, perfect delight, Visions of rapture now burst on my sight; I in my Savior am happy and blest; watching and waiting, looking above, Echoes of mercy, whispers of love..." He is so good to us.
DeleteMany thanks to the people (including Brad) who sent me links to info about the idea that the phrase "in the twinkling of an eye" is a Hebrew idiom that refers to sunset.
ReplyDeleteThe material is interesting, and I saw fit to respond to this information in a careful, thoughtful manner. To that end, I have just posted an addendum to my most recent article that may be of interest to a few:
http://www.alittlestrength.com/articles/2017/1709-hour-of-prayer-addendum.htm
P-E-A-C-E I-N C-H-R-I-S-T, everybody! =:D
Greg
P.S. Sorry I haven't had more time to respond to comments and comment on other people's articles and such, but things have been a bit hectic around here lately. =8o
Thanks for the link/ addendum Greg. I can see both sides... I have noticed that what is a stretch for some is obvious for others. It's nothing to build a doctrine out of but I just wanted to share a source to show that Scottie wasn't pulling it out of thin air.... That's all...nothing more nothing less. We are all on the same team. Besides, the sun is always setting somewhere in ever single moment! : )
Delete(I have always thought that a jetliner that advertised a sunset flight could charge more as the sunsets would last much longer than normal... if we are still around in 5-10 years maybe we can develop that!)
I really enjoy your article and writing style Greg. Also mostly agree with you conclusions. Grace and peace!
DeleteFinally got around to reading both articles, and enjoyed them very much. Reading Greg's article reminded that so often it's not what we say that matters, but it's the impact, or interpretation, of those words that can make or break your intentions.
ReplyDeleteI think I completely understood what Scottie was trying to convey in his presentation, but Greg's points are valid, and necessary in my opinion. Although, it almost seems like trying to understand the season we're living in is becoming Christian taboo. Is that why people believe in the whole "rapture can happen at any second and we'll never know in advance?" Because I honestly don't know the Biblical foundation for this doctrine.
Thank you all for the work you do, it feels like I'm learning something new everyday.
-Samuel