Scott Clarke's Interview with Ron Matsen
In an amazing turn of events, a debunking attempt received a huge response from the proponents of the Rev 12 Sign, which then turned into a 1 hour plus interview on the very same program just days later! Clearly our amazing God is intimately involved in all of this... Watch the video and let us know your thoughts on what is presented and this amazing turn of events!
This was a wonderful and most gracious dialogue. Hats off to both Scottie and Ron. I pray this sends a positive message throughout the watching Body and more will just get excited to watch for the Lord's soon coming.
ReplyDeleteI was so encouraged by this! This is how godly people can share their beliefs, talk graciously about their disagreements and have conversations that edify the body of Christ. I'm so blessed by Scott & Ron!
ReplyDeleteI think the interview was ok, but would have preferred for Scottie to focus on the cross reference scriptural links with the birth symbolism or the dispensational connection between the woman in travail and the lifting of the blindness if Israel.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, basically the whole thing is about the Rev. 12 sign, but very little was mentioned about the big picture. The efficacy of the sign is amplified by all of the other events and "coincidences" pointing to 2017.
Watchfortheday.org and Unsealed.org and HeavenlySign2017.com (???) really showcase a lot of this kind of stuff, but even those websites only scratch the surface. I like the document this site archieved from Allen too! ... and also the engineer who wrote Factual Faith and God's Roadmap to the End.
I wish someone would make a big conglomeration video and throw everything on the table.
After watching the full interview here are my thoughts:
ReplyDelete1. Ron's apology for mischaracterizing Scott, Robert and Steve was a great way to start and wonderful example of humility and forgiveness.
2. Ron's lack of knowledge with Stellarium showed to me a lack of personal study looking at the sign, my guess is that he watched many hours of videos (most likely looking for holes in the theory) rather than taking the time with the software to examine the sign personally.
3. The point above is why I think we all should become familiar with the sign using the software for yourself, your understanding and appreciation skyrockets when you do.
4. I wish they would have brought up the Old Testament verses that talk about a woman in labor relating to the end time events. To me this is a critical aspect of the sign and its interpretation. Micah 5:3, Isaiah 66:7, Lev 12, Micah 4:10, Jer 30:6-7, Isaiah 13:8, Isaiah 26:16-21 and many more are relevant (look for a post on this in the near future).
5. Ron's comment about Jude 13 was a somewhat bizarre way to end such gracious interview. Is he saying the planets are evil? To me this was a misapplication of that verse.
Overall I think that fact that Ron did an about face on this topic so quickly was nothing short of a miracle and answer to prayer. It seems clear that Ron isn't totally on board, but I can assure you that he takes it much more seriously than he did 5 days ago.... hopefully his followers do too! : )
my own followup thoughts to yours:
Delete1. Yep
2. Ron is still against the alignment being the fulfillment of Rev 12:1-5 so his bias prevents him from seeing it any another way. His next video will be a real attack.
3. Agreed
4. Yes Please!!!
5. Agreed
A few more things I thought of....
Delete6. The emphasis on the constellations by Ron was a bit strange. The symbols have been very consistent throughout the century's pertaining to the main 12.... especially Leo and the Woman. You can switch the artwork in Stellarium in the settings to get a sense of this.
7. Ron dwelt on the lines in the constellations quite a bit. Yes, some constellations don't look much like their names, but Virgo and especially Leo do. The legs and womb area of (Virgo / The Woman / The Maiden) are the most clearly relatable...which happen to be two of the critical features described in Rev 12:1-2.
8. Jupiter doing the 42 week / 9+ month loop in the belly is a huge indicator that this is in fact showing us a birth scenario in the stars which matches the prophecy. Look at THE GRAPHICS HERE and see just how perfectly the movement of Jupiter matches the pregnancy imagery. Ron seemed to dismiss this fact... probably because he never really studied the movements all that closely.
On point 6, I thought the same....Scott isn't saying there is a mane or a tail on Leo, but if said "in the area of the mane or tail", everyone would know where/what I was talking about. He seemed to have a preoccupation with Scott being the origin of Virgo having legs. I mean, if I said in her head, would that be a totally crazy & new revelation for some?
DeleteAlso...on the point of being able to see the sign. IMO, to see the sign, you have to be looking for it (or recognize it when you see it). Since he was mainly concerned about Israel seeing it, my point is that Jews (non-messianic) don't acknowledge the NT (hence wont read Rev, therefore, won't be aware of Rev 12). I don't think their going to go out on 9/23, look up, and go "look...there's the Rev 12 sign". I think it is a sign for Christians, but I could be wrong on that. Even Christians aren't going to look up & recognize the alignment as anything other than a bunch of stars. This is a sign for those that are studying and watching...again IMO.
Also, agreed on the whole Jude 13 thing....really weird...like he thought that was the detonator that blew the whole thing up??? Strange....I thought he was gracious enough though. Regardless, as you stated, he knows a good deal more about it than he did a few days ago!
they're...sorry, I can type faster than I can think. That's terrifying.
DeleteBrad, regarding your point #5 about Jude 13 I left some comment for Ron at YouTube (G+ "Corinna Schütt"). I hope he will read it. I told him that Jude 13 can easily be taken as proof that God definitely knows about the difference between fixed stars and planets. He created them such. ;-)
DeleteAbout 41: RM questions not being able to see the sign, Scott gives him coordinates, say it will be seen partially, but could have stated Virgo is clothed in the sun, that is why she is difficult to see.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree with Scotts point that the sign can be seen when combining our views at sunset and sunrise, I would add that Knowledge of the sign is the most important thing. Even if we couldn't see it, we know it is there. Perhaps it will be cloudy that day....the sign is still there. Perhaps a dust storm will engulf the land.... the sign is still there. You could be trapped in a basement for the 23rd with no windows, yet the sign is still there. And we all have knowledge of the sign already.... if we didn't none of this would be having this conversation!! And, beside all this if God wants, he could make the Sun go dark at noon....just like Amos 8:9 says he will at some point in the future.
Delete"About 41: RM questions not being able to see the sign..."
ReplyDeleteThat's why God gave us Stellarium.
It strikes me that there is no need for us to physically see the sign--God gave us the tools to examine in minute detail as much as we please. This is just another puny straw for the critics to grasp at.
On the other hand, two thousand years ago the Star of Bethlehem and the signs associated with that WERE physically seen--they had to be.
Agreed. We are in the age of technology that allows us to easily "see" the Rev12 sign. Just as when the Two Witnesses will preach for 3.5 years, then the antichrist will kill them and they will lay in the streets an "all the world will see them" (Cell phones, ipads, computers makes this a reality in conjunction with the 24 hr cameras at the temple mount).
DeleteAs stated by Greg above.................the magi didn't need Stellarium, but, they saw it at night and the Bethlehem star was caused by a conjunction of Jupiter and Regulus (going off of memory, so forgive me if I am incorrect). But the Rev 12 sign (being in the day), is a "snap shot like" event and easily seen in the software.
"knowledge shall increase".................and there are good reasons it has (Daniel 12:4)
Yes and Yes! I was eluding to that above but didn't unpack it well. God has given us the technology to not only SEE the sign, but STUDY the sign in depth for years leading up to its fulfillment! To me, that's even better, we can wrap our arms (and eyes) around it in a way only a few people could if we didn't have that technology. It is accessible to all curious enough to look. Instead of a negative, we should see Stellarium as a positive...a gift really. After all, not all technology is evil. God can use it for His good and bring about His purposes and help us understand His plan. Remember when Gutenberg and his printing press technology...there were people against that yet it made it possible for individuals to have access to the Word of God. God can use such things. Stellarium is the same type of deal in this case. He even has a recent precedent of using it as seen in the Bethlehem Star info by Rick Larsen.
DeleteMany want to know if it's true or false, period. We are so close to the time (all of Fall season, not one day would be appropriate to watch) , the Revelation 12:1-2 sign very clearly to be fulfilled, plus convergence signs, that this is indeed a high watch period, why not be ready, and looking up? If this is not the Great Sign, so be it, continue watching. ~Tryphosa
Delete“Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”
Luke 21:28
“Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them. Mark 14:37
“And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!” Mark 13:37
Dear brethren, even when it might not be clear if we can "see" the sign (be it via Stellarium or by naked eye) if discussed like that we must not forget that we as NT believers WALK BY FAITH AND NOT BY SIGHT 2 Corinthians 5:7 We will get to live by sight very soon when we reach Heaven literally. But not yet here! God provides all the signs though but we cannot grasp them without faith. Everybody who just examines the signs but without faith must fail. Blessings... Hold on a few days yet and keep cool.
DeleteThis conversation must have pleased the very heart of God! It encouraged me greatly, and is a beautiful picture of 1 Cor 13 & love undergirding ALL. Not a hint of 'gongs resounding or cymbals clanging....' So encouraging! Conversation done in kindness, love, humility and patience. I'm a fairly new bible student - but I've read through the Bible seven times now and studies with eagerness for a few years... I don't presume to know much - the more I study the more I feel like I'm just scratching the surface of God's amazing depth and wisdom... I just know that these things resonate with my heart!! It makes sense. It fits the Biblical picture, and I feel like the pieces of the puzzle fall into place with these theories (God's calendar based on the feasts, Israel, the woman in labor etc) I feel like the Bible has come alive - and I'm so grateful for the wisdom that God is giving to men like Scott Clarke as He is allowing 'knowledge to increase' in these very end of days.... May He prepare His bride to receive her groom - as she waits and watches and expects His soon coming with great joy.
ReplyDeleteHi all, my name is Rob and I've been with you all, my brothers and sisters in Christ, in diligent and humble prayer, research and testing the scriptures to see if that which we are seeing and hearing in regard to the season of convergence and the Revelation 12 signs. As my first post after reading Unsealed, rev12daily, AlanH, and so many others for the past 2 years or so, I felt compelled to share just a couple of thoughts and facts. This might be due to the fact that so many long in the tooth Bible teachers have come out with "opinions" as to why these signs aren't from God as Gods word so clearly portrays, and just maybe it's The Holy Spirit who has moved me.
ReplyDeleteFirst I would like to point out as so many others have that it's clear that those opposed to the sign have failed to adequately and thoroughly study all the scripture in Berean like manner and instead have taken to obscurity as the preferred route of Prophetic study.
I also have watched all the way through Chuck Misslers revelation study videos. I highly respect him and have even used some of his teaching in home bible studies. The most significant problem unnoticed with his study was his contradiction of his own teaching regarding Rev 12. He hammers home the structure outline as a guide when reading Revelation, that John was to write down the things that were(Christ the King) things that are (church age) and the things to come(everything after; from Rev 4 onward). Rev 12 is the only chapter in which he goes agianst his own teaching of the things that are yet to be, and states that it is a reference to the past as an overall allegorical picture of Christ at his birth. Rev 12 is also the only chapter in which he changes his very literal interpretation of God's word, and instead chooses allegory before returning to his literal hermeneutic.
We all remain in the fallen flesh and are therefore subject to flawed thinking. I want to encourage you all to practice grace and share the truth in love, as difficult as that can be sometimes when the full truth of the word is under fire from skeptics. I also want to encourage us all that we are in the right track seeking and longing for the Lord in such a way that is true to God's word. I believe we will all see eachother very soon joined together with Christ our Lord and Savior.
Food for thought: Just maybe, God is also using this sign to reveal the hearts of man in a way that those who don't want to believe God and take him at his word, long to stay in the world more than one might be led to believe(Lots wife syndrome?), and also to prove the hearts of us Longing for restoration as we watch, look, and pray for the blessed hope today. I love you all. MARANATHA!
I appreciate your thoughts. It does seem like there is some sifting going on. I'm of the hope though that after the solar eclipse many of these sleepy Believers will wake up all the way and realize how close we are.
DeleteCopy and paste of my post over on the Unsealed board:
ReplyDeleteJust listened to the follow-up interview between Ron and Scott. I thought Scott did a very good job of calmly and factually stating his position. That in and of itself may go a long way towards softening the hearts of many who may have expected to see some sort of wild-eyed, bushy haired, raving lunatic representing the viewpoint of many of us who place great significance in this Rev 12 sign. For the most part, not that my opinion really matters much (no illusions on my part that it does), I thought Ron showed humility, although some awkwardly unsuccessful attempts at humor, coupled with his very off-key ending comment about Jude, seem to reflect his ongoing bias against the sign's validity. That said, this was certainly far better than Ron's initial video where he started off very early on with a reference to Goebbels. Good grief!! It was interesting to me how he completely sidestepped Scottie's reference to Missler having previously entertained the possibility that the Rev 12 child could be a reference the church being "harpazoed."
Scott made reference in passing to the other converging signs; too bad there was not more time for him to elaborate. So many folks who are not as aware of all the converging signs have no idea that even if you took the Rev 12 sign off the table for the sake of discussion, there are still a myriad of powerful end-time signs that make this season of time arguably, in my personal opinion, the highest watch time for the rapture in the history of the church. Based on the things I have read about the book "88 Reason Why the Rapture Will be in 1988", most of those reasons cited in that work are comparatively flimsy when compared to the kinds of signs and prophetic fulfillment we are dealing with today. I am quite confident we can come up with the list of "17 Reasons Why the Rapture Might Be in 2017," a list that would be exponentially weightier than the 88 of '88. Even so, come Lord Jesus, come. Maranatha!!! Watchman35
"The Coming Convergence" was the DVD Scott mentioned... the thing is 90 minutes or so, well done and full of info all sayin that the time is now. The amazing thing, the info in that DVD is just an accessory to the Rev 12 Sign. Anyone who takes this seriously should be absolutely overwhelmed with evidence!
Deletehttp://www.thecomingconvergence.com/
Yet another thought about Rev12:5 the DRAGON: Please have a look at this WSO video clip 8/3/17 and help to explain the footage. Only 1 example of many many many... getting more visible all along at least since July, even by naked eye and with normal Smartphone cameras. Double sunset in opposite direction, red sky reflections, magnetosphere from earth's dark side (caused by some big object), sunflare CMEs, EMPs, earth's inner core heating and all that stuff. Its real!
ReplyDeleteNow what I see from Rev12:4 is the fact that the "dragon STOOD" in front of the child to devour it. The Greek word is 'histemi' G2476 look up the definition for yourselves. From this I do assume that some planetary flyby object will appear JUST IN TIME of this event - possibly around 9/23 -and then be FULLY VISIBLE to everyone on earth, probably very scary and threatening to people (Luke 21:26). I guess we will literally see this object "standing in front" of us (not moving but STOPPING at the ecliptic at least during these few days of Jupiters 'birth' in September, perhaps by some gravitational reason) and every one will flip out and panic. But we as the church should then NOT BE AFRAID like the world is! (I mean we certainly will but...) Jesus will come to snatch us up last minute but think of some Bruce Willis movie: our hero and Saviour always comes at the very moment and He is GOD!! So He cannot be late! Be of good cheer 'cuz you know He's near. :-)
Thank God for the watchmen that are watching the Revelation 12 sign but has anybody considered the fact that this might be the 5993 year since creation? The 5993 sign? http://die2live.worthyofpraise.org/rapture-countdown-1234567/
ReplyDeleteAbout 1:09: RM mentions Jude 13 wandering star. He says wandering star is metioned one time in the Bible, in Jude 13
DeleteThese are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots;
raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. Jude 12-13
Not a good depiction of wandering stars, almost like RM wanted to throw Scott off with that verse. Venus is a wandering star and is representative of Christ. (Scott mentions this at about 42:00.)
“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” Revelation 22:16
All in all, this meeting was healing and beneficial for all but did also illustrate issues all around. I have admired and enjoyed Missler's work and found the original video to be so out of keeping with that foundation that the only way to wrap my head around it was spiritual warfare. This move back toward fellowship and dialogue was very encouraging.
ReplyDeleteThe key point standing out to me was the utter and complete conceptual ignorance of Ron on the issue of the Mazzaroth. The obtuse question about Scott's source of validating where the womb and legs are? Ron, you ARE kidding, right? Not being insulting here, simply descriptive. Ron's inarticulate fumbling around every aspect of the idea of a story being in the stars, where the names and stories originate, the PURPOSE of the heavens themselves in this role etc. was breathtaking from some one in Koinonia.
The Big Picture is that YHWH named every star and set them all in their dance, FIRST, specifically, to tell the story of Christ TO US. Their FIRST purpose was as SIGNS (Genesis). Adam knew this story. After the Fall and through the flood and beyond, these tales were the foundation of 'aboriginal' legends which is why there is phenomenal continuity of these images/names/ideas across cultures who never interacted, separated by huge distances or spans of time. This method of communication is considered so inerrant, BY YHWH HIMSELF, that the entire human race is held accountable to the Lord for this information EVEN BEFORE CHRIST CAME IN THE FLESH. Rom 1:20 is bedrock here, Psalm 19:1 obviously and then study any good teaching covering the Gospel in the Stars for more specific Scriptures here.
Again, THIS idea, the idea of REAL symbolism existing IN NATURE as G-d's direct message to US was such an obvious total BLIND spot to Ron that it was like watching 2 people argue about ways to solve a complex calculus problem but one of them had never studied algebra. Scott tried to paint the picture for Ron but I think that Scott was a little out of his area of gifting here and didn't really 'get' the HUGE missing piece rendering Ron incapable of tracking with this, which, until he gets that FIRST, he will be unable to swallow the larger fish.
Lastly, think about the resume' which Ron provided about his history as a Shepherd of flocks. I have zero doubt that his flocks were tended with loving care as best as Ron was able and all under the guidance of the Spirit and that they were blessed by Ron's care. Nonetheless, what a good picture of the American Pastorate being completely inept in such a key area, OVER THE PAST FIFTY YEARS, especially as it relates to spiritual discernment, temporal application of spiritual truths and properly handling these End Times which REQUIRE astute spiritual and scriptural lenses though which to sort things out. NOW we can much more clearly SEE, here in this discussion, a significant factor in the pushback at REV12 (if only they would research it) and the heart of the Laodicean spirit. The sheep of THESE shepherds are incapable of connecting the dots because their LIFETIME of study has been led by men similarly blind to this aspect of dividing His Word and applying it to our world, physically, temporally, in physical reality. Of course, this is in perfect alignment with how our Father ordained it to be, and told us it would be, so not cast stones here, simply unpacking what my spirit sees as it relates to one piece of this big picture which we are all experiencing.
Maranatha!
Thank you for this wonderful analysis. Expertly written and astutely observed!!! Well done my brother and THANK YOU!
DeleteThank you, Brad, for your kind words. In reviewing my post, it is important to note that the point of our being shown these blind spots among our brothers and sisters is to be empowered to more effectively love them and serve them and minister the Truth with them as THEY need it to be done, which will require backing up several steps and better be well anointed to happen any time soon. Nonetheless, this insight informs our prayers of intercessions and Grace for them and for us in being used to help them along as well and helps us more humbly raise them up in this understanding in the way which He has ordained that THEY need to go at this point.
DeleteJimboni dear brother, sadly your excellent analysis (!!) of the "blind spot" with regards to Rev12-sign can only mean that in fact Ron Matsen does NOT belong to the body of Christ but is pretending for all his pastoring lifetime now (Romans 8:9 b). The Holy Spirit reveals this prophecy voluntarily to ANYONE who is sealed by Him once and for all, be it a mature one or a baby Christian (John 16:14-15; James 1:5). Because this is an important sign for ALL of us and not a neat sideshow about some special exegetical question.
DeleteThus, the conclusion can only be that somebody being so much "blind" about Rev12-sign cannot really see anything about Christ. He is a blind leader of the blind then (Luke 6:39; Romans 2:19). He might be more polite and self-controlled towards Scott than some others are though but... Really sad for Ron but this is the stark contrast of "seeing" this prophecy in a believers heart or not through the light of scripture. The bible tells us he is not saved because the Holy Spirit doesn't dwell in him to MAKE him see the sign. He's only examinating from the outside but not in faith. That's not my speculation about it, Gods word alone draws the line from his own words and behaviour then (1 John 2:19). This poor man has been betraying himself about being a brother then for all his lifetime, let's pray for him... Blessings, Jimboni!
Jimbonis analysis made me suddenly recall a very remarkable scene of the Gospel of John movie: please check out the nightly talk between Jesus and Nicodemus, especially from minute 21:00 on. You will remark the scenery changing by both stepping outside the house (!) and looking up to the sky and at the stars (!). Jesus tries to explain but Nicodemus still stays blind. This Ron/Scottie conversation was a very telling parallel to John 3:12 being set on stage astonishingly beautiful by this movie scene that also only a true child of God can fully understand in its meaning. The director probably only wanted to change setting technically but God used this stage direction to illustrate His proper message to the believer.
DeleteAnnabel, I am blessed to see my contribution adding life to this dialogue. I would lovingly posit a somewhat more nuanced perspective on what you speak of. While it is an effective application of what we saw in the interview to adjust our understanding of Ron's ministry based upon the fruits of his handling of this topic, I encourage you not allow yourself to be held captive in the Prison of Two Ideas.
DeleteI would encourage that we withhold taking such to the point of questioning the salvation of another as that is NOT our prevue, and, serves little to add value to our Wise Men's' Journey. True, as I sought to do in my post, we are required to be discerning of those amongst us and their err from the Way as it relates to leading ourselves and others astray. Of course, this MUST be Spirit led, with much of our focus being to get out of His way. Our Lord makes it very clear that He has a stern council towards anyone misleading those in their care, ESPECIALLY as it relates to anything related to HIM, and so we can trust in that. Let's take stock of the blessings and limits of the perspectives granted to our fellow travelers and stop there, leaving the issue of their personal Salvation between them and our Lord. In love, Jimboni
Jimboni, appreciate that TY. There is just nothing of grey shade with me in the bible and I'm sure you agree about that. I'm not the one to judge for sure. Just a fundamentalist as far as scripture is concerned. ;-) No offense. But if you check scripture in application on what you described (and which quite a few youtube commentators admitted too and therefore confirmed in the Spirit!) you cannot denie Gods word on the consequences either. Just saying. BTW the gospel of John movie is very worth watching if you don't know it yet. The best piece I've seen ever - although I proved from the extras on DVD that indeed NO ONE of the main actors nor the director are my brethren in Christ. Praying for all of them, trust me. Much love and blessings to you! :)
DeleteScott mentions Revelation 12 Daily at about 1:08:00, thanks Scott! ~Tryphosa
ReplyDeleteI thought Ron was awful. I am a big fan & was appalled. Couldn't even finish watching the video. He seemed condescending and using " gotcha" techniques on Scottie. The nonsense that went on and on about where was the birth canal was embarrassing for Ron.
ReplyDeleteMe again... Jimboni nailed it for me. I have seen every single video of K house multiple times on YouTube for years, now. Chuck Missler taught on the Mazzaroth & gave the bibliography where I went & further researched. So why didn't Ron know about these things having been so close to that ministry? He wrote me in the comments that he was helping Scottie & his audience that didn't know by asking those questions & something about me calling him ignorant. I too was gobsmacked by his lack of basic information. I too, questioned in my mind his discernment- and had to fight off questioning his motives for the takeover of K House. Praying my imaginations were vain & unfounded.
Delete