Is Olive Tree Ministries Softening Thier Stance On The Rev 12 Sign?
This morning Olive Tree Ministries shared another article which references the significance of the Revelation 12 Sign. The article is titled 12 Events To Watch Between August 21st - September 30 and was written by Prophecy News Watch. Olive Tree Ministries is led by one of my favorite prophecy teachers, Jan Markell. You can visit her website at www.olivetreeviews.org.
You may remember that it was Jan who invited pastor Billy Crone onto her weekly radio show back in May. It was a show partially dedicated to debunking the Revelation 12 Sign titled: "It Could Happen Today."
Her radio show "Understanding the Times" is mandatory listening for many people, syndicated on 800+ stations and often referenced by many of the top watchmen such as JD Farag and John Haller.
At that point in time both Pastor Crone and Markell seemed utterly convinced that this sign was "nonsense". It was heart-wrenching to listen to since the information was so twisted and presented in such a unfair way. Famously just days afterwards, Pastor Crone also appeared on a much hyped episode of Prophecy Watchers with Gary Stearman. The negative feedback was so great regarding that show the episode actually got scrubbed from the internet! You can still see much of the show here though if you are interested.
Markell is an influential voice in the prophecy community and despite her comments from back in March, it seems that there are signs her view on the sign might be shifting. A month after the March 13th Crone segment (which received considerable negative feedback as well) she shared a pro Revelation 12 Sign article on her daily news links titled Move Out, Draw Fire written by Pete Garcia from the Omega Report. In that article Pete makes a well reasoned plea to all of those who are dismissing the sign to take a second look. Could she have taken that plea and the many emails she received in response to her radio show to heart? It's possible... back in January, she had shared this article by Michael Snyder which did give some weight to the sign as well. And before you assume that some intern is picking the articles, Markell has indicated multiple times that she personally selects the articles to be shared each day.
Her views during the "It Could Happen Today" episode with Pastor Crone were certainly quite dismissive of the sign and all those who see any significance in it. But that was prior to seeing the massive outpouring from her listeners and witnessing the Prophecy Watchers debacle created by her guest just days later. Today we see that she has shared this new article which supports the significance of the sign, perhaps indicating a softening of her stance.
The source of the article, Prophecy News Watch, does clearly take the Rev12 Sign very seriously, evident by a popular YouTube video they produced which you can see at the bottom of this page. While it would be wonderful if Jan gave a voice to those of us simply wishing give out accurate information about the sign to our brothers and sisters, (my offer still stands, Jan!) I still find it encouraging that she has at the very least become more balanced on the topic. To me this is an answer to prayer and a wonderful step in the right direction. After all, if there is even a chance this sign is legit (and there is) and a chance it indicates we are entering a heightened season primed for Christ's return (to say the least) well then why wouldn't she want to revisit the topic in a well rounded, biblically based way? It seems as though she would owe it to her loyal listeners to do just that. Many of us have shown that it is possible to talk about the sign in a way that doesn't remotely fall into date setting... Greg Lauer and The Daily Crow and Unsealed.org are just a couple of great examples... hopefully my recent interview did that as well.
It should be noted that JD Farag is scheduled to speak at Jan's annual "Understanding the Times" conference this fall. I have been in attendance to this free event the last several years and can personally verify that last year the conference was absolutely overflowing with 6000+ attendees. Lord willing, this years conference is scheduled for Saturday, October 7th. As you probably know, JD has stated a few times that he finds the Rev 12 Sign "very interesting" and "very hard to dismiss." My hunch is that by the time of the conference the opinions on this sign will be much less varied... but we shall wait and see (James 5:7-8).
Here is the link to the new article Jan shared today as well as the Rev12 Sign video also produced by Prophecy News Watch. FYI, unfortunately this ministry sees the need to litter their information with many advertisements... I apologize in advance for that!
12 Events To Watch Between August 21st - September 30th
Her radio show "Understanding the Times" is mandatory listening for many people, syndicated on 800+ stations and often referenced by many of the top watchmen such as JD Farag and John Haller.
At that point in time both Pastor Crone and Markell seemed utterly convinced that this sign was "nonsense". It was heart-wrenching to listen to since the information was so twisted and presented in such a unfair way. Famously just days afterwards, Pastor Crone also appeared on a much hyped episode of Prophecy Watchers with Gary Stearman. The negative feedback was so great regarding that show the episode actually got scrubbed from the internet! You can still see much of the show here though if you are interested.
Markell is an influential voice in the prophecy community and despite her comments from back in March, it seems that there are signs her view on the sign might be shifting. A month after the March 13th Crone segment (which received considerable negative feedback as well) she shared a pro Revelation 12 Sign article on her daily news links titled Move Out, Draw Fire written by Pete Garcia from the Omega Report. In that article Pete makes a well reasoned plea to all of those who are dismissing the sign to take a second look. Could she have taken that plea and the many emails she received in response to her radio show to heart? It's possible... back in January, she had shared this article by Michael Snyder which did give some weight to the sign as well. And before you assume that some intern is picking the articles, Markell has indicated multiple times that she personally selects the articles to be shared each day.
Her views during the "It Could Happen Today" episode with Pastor Crone were certainly quite dismissive of the sign and all those who see any significance in it. But that was prior to seeing the massive outpouring from her listeners and witnessing the Prophecy Watchers debacle created by her guest just days later. Today we see that she has shared this new article which supports the significance of the sign, perhaps indicating a softening of her stance.
The source of the article, Prophecy News Watch, does clearly take the Rev12 Sign very seriously, evident by a popular YouTube video they produced which you can see at the bottom of this page. While it would be wonderful if Jan gave a voice to those of us simply wishing give out accurate information about the sign to our brothers and sisters, (my offer still stands, Jan!) I still find it encouraging that she has at the very least become more balanced on the topic. To me this is an answer to prayer and a wonderful step in the right direction. After all, if there is even a chance this sign is legit (and there is) and a chance it indicates we are entering a heightened season primed for Christ's return (to say the least) well then why wouldn't she want to revisit the topic in a well rounded, biblically based way? It seems as though she would owe it to her loyal listeners to do just that. Many of us have shown that it is possible to talk about the sign in a way that doesn't remotely fall into date setting... Greg Lauer and The Daily Crow and Unsealed.org are just a couple of great examples... hopefully my recent interview did that as well.
It should be noted that JD Farag is scheduled to speak at Jan's annual "Understanding the Times" conference this fall. I have been in attendance to this free event the last several years and can personally verify that last year the conference was absolutely overflowing with 6000+ attendees. Lord willing, this years conference is scheduled for Saturday, October 7th. As you probably know, JD has stated a few times that he finds the Rev 12 Sign "very interesting" and "very hard to dismiss." My hunch is that by the time of the conference the opinions on this sign will be much less varied... but we shall wait and see (James 5:7-8).
Here is the link to the new article Jan shared today as well as the Rev12 Sign video also produced by Prophecy News Watch. FYI, unfortunately this ministry sees the need to litter their information with many advertisements... I apologize in advance for that!
12 Events To Watch Between August 21st - September 30th
Brad,
ReplyDeleteAs you mentioned above, there seems to be a negative connotation towards all date setters. What are your thoughts towards season setters?
Provided this alignment is a match with Revelations 12, then conditionally based on that being true, I am finding it hard not to try and argue that on or before the 23rd would be a must for the rapture. Additionally, I think we can expect the feast of trumpets to be the "season."
Obviously, such thoughts steps on the toes of anyone not pre-tribtribulation and limits the "doctrine of immenancy", but I would rather be the guy who tried to warn others about something I believe the Bible has now revealed, than to potentiality fail to sound the alarm.
In my opinion, one's personal conviction regarding the validity of the information should drive he or she to action or silence... or even scoffing.
Anyways, I watched this video yesterday and was scripturally challenged to reconsider some of my viewpoints on the omniscience of Christ, while he was made into the likeness of man.
https://youtu.be/aN66B84NLhQ
It is a hard pill for me to try and swallow, so I am interested in your thoughts on this video, as well as others who are watching the 9/23/17 date.
Thanks for any feedback that may be provided.
Dear Brandon, I understand your trouble with this video. Jack Prinsloo is not always rightly dividing the word, although I really appreciate much of his deep insight into scriptures in many ways. Personally, I do not doubt omniscience of God at ANY time. I would have explained this "no man knows" question by the idiomatic meaning of the term (= Feast of Trumpets) but never by some "self-limitation of Jesus as man in the flesh". As far as his PHYSICAL condition was concerned, the Son of God limited himself somehow (and even then he controlled his own dying John 10:17-18 showing his godly omnipotence). But his omniscience surely NEVER was limited as Jesus would have temporarily ceased to be God in the SPIRIT. He always was God AND man a 100%.
DeleteThank you
DeleteThe article referred to is a) not her own and b) mentioning Rev12-sign shortly like "just among others" (mainly focused on the US somehow) not really giving credit to its importance like it should. May I notice the fact that Jan Markell as a WOMAN is NOT supposed from Gods word to teach AT ALL? About anything? I mean, she can have her own Christian internet blog e.g. or sth like giving personal opinion, praise and prayer or recommending others' teachings (of brothers only, not sisters!) and she might be a teacher of women and children (Titus 2:4) or prophesying at home among her family but not promoting OWN TEACHING on Gods word regarding PROPHECY towards a PUBLIC audience that includes MEN. This is not scriptural as we all know 1 Timothy 2:12
ReplyDeleteOr did I get this wrong about women teaching in public?
Hi Annabel! I believe the issue is a woman exercising authority over a man in a church context. Hence, my belief that women are not to be pastors or co-pastors. Can a woman teach? Like a bible study? Certainly, but not giving "sermons." Just my 2¢ -Jon
DeleteHi Jon TY for your thoughts much appreciated! :) Well I think Paul is pretty clear about this: if a woman teacher bible-study adresses a 100% women group, no problem. But... Reminds me of pluralizing in Italian language: if only one single male is within a group of 1 or 10,000 female, the whole group subject is considered male. ;-) That's why e.g. Anne Graham Lotz is not always feeling comfortable (which I can understand, she wants to be obedient to God) as far as I could see from some articles about her. She declares herself as "evangelist" for that reason as she shares the gospel but this is tricky nevertheless as teaching often is a part thereof, especially if she doesn't always speak on "pure" womens conferences.
DeleteAs a Christian woman in public the bible clearly defines her possible tasks: Teaching is only for women and children (bible-study is = teaching). Besides, there's a lot more a woman can do: Prayer, praise and prophesying (but not prophecy teaching for men), private exhortation and counseling, organization and service within the church and of course sharing the gospel to everybody. But regarding speaking in front of groups of persons including male brethren she ought to refrain from teaching = exegesis. And definitely she should not lead a ministry which includes her own bible teaching on the internet. That's the same thing as preaching from the pulpit i.e. having spiritual authority over men.
Agree with you Annabel. I cring, similar to when my mother reads to me from the 'Joyce 'Meyers' bible translation and says 'listen to what she says'...ahhh nope.
DeleteAnnabel, funny, just when it appears we've triggered every button available in the Evangelical community you bring up 1 Tim 2:12, oh my. Before we all spin off on THAT issue I would like to share a perspective I got from a message delivered by Jack Hayford at a Promise Keepers conference some years back. In short, this courageous teacher, so labeled for even venturing in to this topic, framed his teaching on this principle around the idea that Paul's exhortation to Timothy was actually directed to MEN, not women.
ReplyDeleteRemember, when Eve took that infamous bite, after being beguiled of the enemy, Adam WAS STANDING THERE THE ENTIRE TIME DOING NOTHING (Gen 3:6). Thus, Paul addresses this issue from the perspective of the Headship Curses (Gen 3:16), placed upon Adam and Eve, by YHWH, as part of their Judgment and to be worked out over the entire Age of Grace. In short, Pastor Jack shows us 1 Tim 2:12 as being more of a rebuke against the SILENCE OF ADAM than the teaching of the woman. All nature hates a vacuum, even a spiritual one, and when the man shirks HIS responsibility as teacher, king, priest and leader for those seeking the Kingdom, then something else will always rush in to 'fill' this void.
Of course, anything other than YHWH's planned outworking of anything will be, by definition, un-Godly, and, in this case, the woman's Headship Curse will kick in and she will find herself driven to step up when HE does not. Paul is seeking to reverse this dynamic and use HER silence to force HIM to "man up" and assume the leadership he abdicated.
Maranatha!
Jimboni, I definitely see your point of view here. However, from the text of Gen 3:6 alone I don't believe we can be certain that Adam was with Eve the entire time. The only words in the text we have are "with her." Considering the placement of these words, to say definitively that Adam was present to witness the entire situation unfold would be to take more from the text than is there. Also 1 Timothy 2:14 states it was Eve in the transgression, not Adam. However with that being said, I won't be overly dogmatic about this because certainly it is debatable and a see where you're coming from. I am still unconvinced that women should fill the void for men and being pastoring churches. Just my opinion.
DeleteJimboni, I do indeed appreciate a fruitful discussion of this topic very much as at this very end of days there seems to be a lot of confusion and modern
Deleteemancipatory watering down influenced by worldly feminism of what Paul clearly framed for everybody in the church in 1 Timothy 2:12. Blessings, brother! ;-)
PS: I am a woman myself and have struggled a lot with this topic as God provided me with more insight in many (prophecy) teaching topics as even some educated brothers have. It took me quite a while to understand that there was the lesson of Deborah, Abigail and the wife of Manoah which was more important to learn for me.
Annabel YHWH blesses you immensely and so do I. Daniel
Delete1 Timothy 2:12 is quite adamant in its intent, regardless of our re-interpretations as to why it came about. It's important to note however that this was a teaching to the church and I don't believe it applies to secular work etc.
DeleteP.S. I just noticed and thought it worth mentioning, that Genesis 3:16 is where the Headship Curses are. This FIRST "3:16" is significant in light of John 3:16, isn't it? Every single time our Lord layers in more meaning, isn't it amazing? First comes the Fall and the curses, this one Genesis 3:16 being at the heart of the intimate relationship/mystery which our Lord uses to demonstrate His relationship to US (Eph 5:32), and after that comes THE answer THE Way, THE Truth and THE Escape from these and all other curses: CHRIST.
ReplyDeleteMaranatha!
Olive Tree Ministries has a large audience, God Bless them for putting this out there, praying for ears and eyes to be opened.
DeleteThe article and video were produced by Prophecy News Watch. The short video has professional quality that certainly piques interest. I was struck by the humble plea of the author of the article. ~Tryphosa
Quote from the article:
So what does all of this mean?
I don't know, but I am sure that I will receive even more criticism for putting this list together. Those of us that monitor global events and warn about where things are headed are often highly criticized.
But in this day and age, we desperately need independent thinkers that are willing to challenge the system. Way too often people just go with the herd and will believe whatever the mainstream media tells them to think.
Never let someone else do your thinking for you. Investigate things for yourself and come to your own conclusions.
Learning to think critically is one of the most important skills that you can have, and you will find that it is one of the most common traits among those that are truly "awake" to what is going on in the world.
The truth is out there, and if you diligently seek it you will eventually find it
Read more at http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/article.cfm?recent_news_id=1471#lGHA6hpCsoVVE4Ol.99
Who among you will give ear to this? Who will listen and hear for the time to come? Isaiah 42:23
Anabele,
DeleteYou mention the "very end of days": The Bible calls it the end of the world or the last days. Hebrews 9:26 states that the end of the world was set back when Christ died on the cross. Acts 2 states the fulfillment of the last days prophecy from Joel began with Pentecost. Please be prayerful about what the end of the world and last days really means using scripture and not following signs. Signs follow the believer and this end times dispensational doctrine is all about following signs.
This is Jan Markell. I stumbled on this doing some research for an article I am writing. Thanks for not being in attack mode as some were over the summer. As to posting articles, I try to post all angles. I certainly am not going to post things that are way off base and that will mislead people be the articles secular or Christian-based. I post Kade Hawkins' items all the time. I think he does good work though I might not agree with everything.
ReplyDeleteMuch love to you Jan. I appreciate your comments... We are on the same team and that was forgotten by some of our siblings on all sides... Anyway, I am sure this will all make sense someday soon. His ways are certainly above ours. Thanks for stopping by and I hope the letter I dropped off at the conference made it to your hands. God Bless and congrats on 40 years.
DeleteWe literally came home with a truck load of "stuff." I don't recall what you refer to. You can re-send if you wish. We are working 7 days a week to clean up so we have a definite problem with overwork and some confusion. We rent a big truck to haul over and back. To be honest, it is a mess.
Delete