Personal Thoughts On Jan Markell's Program Yesterday

I was responding to a comment by Lance in the previous post and it started getting way too long... so this post will be my general thoughts regarding WHY I think Jan Markell and Pastors Crone and now Hibbs are against this sign.  Many of my other thoughts are in the comments section of that previous post.

My view of why these prophecy leaders are against the Rev 12 Sign...

In their minds they are trying to PROTECT people and the reputation of Bible prophecy.  If I had to guess, the first moment they heard about this sign they made up their mind that it was bogus (likely without ever really looking at it).  They failed the Proverbs 18:13 test. As soon as they saw a date...any date... they made up their mind then and there that there was no way this "sign" had merit.

Once it became such a huge thing Jan scrambled to put together a segment that would put the fire out.  Surely she figured she must protect us from this "date setting" fad. I had been in communication with Jan in the Fall/ Winter of 2016 to discuss this sign and show it to her.... yet she dismissed it multiple times. I offered to explain it and let her see it with her own eyes and show her that it wasn't as trivial as she thought it was. She turned me down.... I believe she said if she met with someone about every crazy idea she would never get anything done.

Once it became so huge (#1 Google search term according to her / highly doubt that, but ok) then she tried to squash it like a bug back in the Spring by bringing in Billy.  Unfortunately for all of us they did it sooooo poorly it just made people mad. They tried to take down a bear with a BB gun.  They totally underestimated the amount of study people had done and instead figured they would just appeal to authority.... aka, tell us to listen to the experts.  It didn't work. The mischaracterization that happened on their part led to many upset people and unfortunately some of them took that frustration out in ways not becoming of a Christian.  In the previous post I apologized to Jan and Billy for my siblings in Christ who did that... The pushback was justified, the way much of it was done was not.

Anyway, from there they lost control of it and probably stepped back, hoping it would go away.  It didn't.  The bear just got bigger. This new show was a last ditch effort to wash their hands of this sign.  Jack and Amir are buddies and surely Amir influenced Jack, who then put out a memo which Jan saw. That memo gave her the reinforcement she needed to bring the subject up again because Jack is so well respected.  It was clear Jack didn't really know the first thing about the sign other than the fact that it happens on September 23rd.  He gives no specifics and speaks in generalities.  They don't address Rev 2:26-27, Micah 5:3 or any of the other the relevant Scripture passages.  He assumes we are taking it out of context and that clearly we are way off because Rev 12 is "just a mid trib chapter".  Basically, we are idiots and we should leave the prophecy interpretation to the professionals. I still love Jack, but I have a feeling that at some point he will regret not taking this sign more seriously.... even if nothing happens on or around the 23rd.

As far as Billy goes, it seems as though Jan had him on to give him some sense of "closure" and help him feel better about the situation because it was her program (along with the Prophecy Watchers debacle) that started the firestorm back in the Spring.  Unfortunately Billy got treated in a not so good way by some and this was a chance to let Billy address all the "haters".  They all felt so bad for Billy that during the last 5 minutes they basically ganged up on everyone who believes in the sign and compared us to Antifa.  Again, I am sorry that happened to him, but no true Christian wishes Billy physical harm.

These guys are in a leadership role and part of what they are doing is trying to protect us and also the reputation of prophecy in general. Remember, prophecy people are often considered "weirdo's", even by most pastors, so they want to keep things as mainstream as they can so more people will open their eyes to the awesome world of end time Bible prophecy... which really is a super relevant but vastly under taught subject in churches today.

In other words, prophecy is their passion (and livelihood) and they don't want it to get a bad name. In their own words, they are scared more people will tune it out if/when nothing happens.  Clearly they are more afraid of looking bad than being wrong. I doubt they have even considered the possibility that they could be wrong and that this sign could actually point to Christ's soon return. If they did surely they wouldn't be so flippant and dismissive about it. The have elevated the doctrine of imminence above other parts of the Bible (Rev 3:3, Heb 10:25, etc) and the Rev 12 sign has revealed that and they don't like it.  In their minds, anything that remotely threatens imminence must be squashed.  Nevermind the fact that this sign doesn't need to threaten imminence, but put it in hyper-drive as our brother Greg Lauer so eloquently wrote about.

So back to the idea of PROTECTING people which I have been trying to get to this whole time.  Imagine the scene from Numbers 13 when the spies return after viewing the Promised Land.  Caleb was convinced they could take the land because of Gods PROMISES...but the other spies were afraid.  They were afraid that the giants would rip apart their friends and family.  They were so focused on the bad that could happen, they totally forgot that God had made a PROMISE to them for GOOD.  They wanted to keep the people safe, and in doing so they short circuited on trusting God.  So out of fear and the guise of PROTECTION, they bent the truth (Num 13:32) and gave a bad report in order to convince others of their view. Sound familiar?

Bad Report
Fast forward to today.  We could very well be standing on the cusp of the promised land of heaven... a moment we have all dreamed of many times.  Jan and Billy surely have, they have taught about the rapture for years.  But here we are less than a month away from the fulfillment of a Great Sign in the heavens with the word HARPAZO connected to it (Rev 12:5)... yet they are so afraid the reputation of Bible prophecy might be tarnished they flatly dismiss the sign without a serious investigation.  They are more focused on what could go wrong, rather than all that could go right.

Ask yourself this, if they are so excited about Christ's return, why wouldn't they be trying to see if they could prove it right, rather then flatly dismissing it as wrong?  Even if there was a 10% chance of it being right, wouldn't they want to be trying to see if it was true!  But no, they are doing the exact opposite.  (If they had a 10% chance of winning the Powerball last week, I guarantee they would be all over trying to see if those numbers were correct!  Surely the legit possibility of Christ's soon return is worth way more than 700 million dollars!)

Anyone who has looked at this sign fairly can see right through their tired and disproven arguments.  It is clear to all of us that they have not given this a fair and open minded review based on facts and scripture.   Instead they decided to cling to what's comfortable and urge others to do the same... completely ignorant of the fact that they may be actively opposing a true sign from God. 
A verse comes to mind... 
But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.  Acts 15:39
I don't doubt their salvation, but perhaps they may be the ones who will shrink from Christ in shame at His coming (1 John 2:28) because their pride and fear kept them from seeing what was so obvious to the rest of us.  This unique sign in the heavens seems to be the fulfillment of Rev 12:1-2, and it COULD mean that we are going home very soon!  That should have you, me, Jan, Jack, and Billy all very, very excited!

Comments

  1. Awesome thought Brad. I'm only 50/50 with the sign, but we have worked hard to make sure it has been preached at our church, which the pastor has. The church are not entirely convinced, but they are listening and most certainly don't want to be in the 'scoffer' camp. Many of them are genuinely excited about what could be about to take place. Jan at the least could have allowed someone with some decent knowledge present on the topic. In neglecting this, she may well lose many supportive followers, and God forbid, possibly Gods blessing on her ministry.

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    1. It was a bizarre talk.... At times I felt like you could use entire paragraphs of what Jack was saying in support of this sign. I appreciate people like you who are at a bare minimum cautious either way... to me that is the safest position and should be our default. I have personally seen enough to convince me that this alignment is what Rev 12 is talking about, the timing of the rapture in relation to that is still up for debate however.... Any day now would be OK with me! : )

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    2. Fantastic article. Thank you so much. Still love Jan, Past Hibbs and Past Billy. We will just agree to disagree. Either way, we will know in a few days πŸ˜‰

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    3. Amen! Any day will do for me as well...particularly if it is before my 40thπŸ˜•

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  2. Three weeks ago I asked the Lord for a sign if 23rd September was the sign for the Rapture ...I have had many visions about it since August 2010...One week later a good friend came back from 3 week holiday in Germany .Not having spoken to her during her holiday we met a couple days later ..She said I have a gift for you..she gave me a tiny solid bride -doll and a 3D card with a backdrop of a bride and the most amazing bouquet that you could almost reach in and touch in white with a sprinkling of pink roses ..my 2 colours ...the caption translated from German read ...the time for your wedding has come .. she said she was in a card shop..obviously not looking for a wedding card ..but noticed this one and was amazed by it..and she heard the Holy Spirit say it's for Liz ...she also had the little bride to go with it that she had been holding onto
    Only believe ..we are meant to be expectant and waiting ..it doesn't matter if we are off in our interpretation ..it matters that like any bride we are strongly anticipating Him to come for us

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    1. Beautiful, Liz. Thanks for sharing. I think you are right, from God's perspective regarding these things... I think it is better to be slightly off and over eager, than to squash the hope of others and be dismissive.

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    2. " I think you are right, from God's perspective regarding these things... I think it is better to be slightly off and over eager, than to squash the hope of others and be dismissive." Brad - you are spot-on! For decades the approach in witnessing to the lost was to hit them with "what if you are wrong" and it's ironic that it is time for the witness to face the same question. The frustrating thing for me is to watch Christians squirm and retract as if they don't even believe what they have been preaching all these years. It's as if truth has exposed them. Individuals have to settle these matters within their own faith, but those with influence over others will be held accountable one way or the other. I still have hope that something, somehow, is going to wake more people before it's too late. We need to pray for that daily. God Bless.

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  3. TY Brad for explaining a bit of the background of these persons (whom I don't know at all but only from their "fruits" now)! Very interesting! You know what first came to my mind when reading your well framed article? Weren't the pharisees in Jesus' time the same way anxiousin the first place to lose their power over the "dumb and cursed" people when those were more trusting in Jesus' words rather than "consulting the experts of Gods word" the pharisees John 7:49? Doesn't this look like John 7:31-32 you just would have to change it slightly in "when Christ comes (the second time) will God show more signs than these which He has already done?" And then look what Jesus answered them like we might answer to those "prophecy experts" today in John 7:33-36!

    YE SHALL SEEK US AND SHALL NOT FIND US; AND WHERE WE GO THITHER YE CANNOT COME.

    They tried to silence our LORD even by murder in order to keep their power over the people and not to lose their status, money and reputation in front of the Romans. It's all about money, power and influence on people (by claiming to "care" for them but this is poor cover-up, very transparent). It's not about the LORD. Not at all. Never was.

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    1. Thanks Annabel... glad it made some sense... its getting late over here!

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  4. I think there is an incentive to call this false and "speculation" because it actually removes speculation and cuts into their business of selling books and videos speculating how the end times will happen. They'll all have egg on their faces also, because this does not conform with any popular preacher's end times timeline chart - but the only timeline chart that matters is God's.

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  5. Been sharing this soon-coming sign and it's probable fulfillment of the Netchatef for some time now. No other pastors in our area will even touch this with a ten-foot pole. I've prayed often for discernment and have only had a deeper confirmation that this 1900+ year-old prophecy is indeed our Messiah coming for His body. It seems hard to imagine that of the thousands of years of human history, we will be part of this glorious event.
    I'd rather be considered a fool than turning a blind eye to this. See you soon.
    And thank you for this wonderful ministry.

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    1. Amen brother Ken. Like Paul said in Philippians 1: 21 For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

      My job is to be His vessel. To consider my reputation of no account, because there is no place for it in his work. I have studied the rev. 12 Sign every day for almost eleven months now, and with all the evidence I have, I am fully convinced this is the catching away of the true believers in Christ.

      Has anyone found as much evidence against it as has been found for it? Every one who comes forward to de-bunk it has been proven wrong by those who have done the homework.

      The Sign still stands.

      For those who say they are 50/50 about it, where is Their 50% evidence against it? It always falls apart.

      What if a study could be done on the people who believe in the sign, and those who don't, to determine if one group studied there scriptures, and had a much stronger prayer life than the other.
      Which group would have the greater propensity to be led by the Spirit of God.
      Which group would be more likely to Halt between two opinions.

      It's not about thinking that one group is better than the other. I simply refer to the five wise virgins, and the five foolish.

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    2. Thanks guys. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
      He must increase....we must decrease. John 3:30

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  6. I think you summed it up very well Brad!! I said their response frustrated me, but I think what I meant was it disappointed me because it is very clear again that the material was not studied. If it was, the sources used were those that sought to disprove it. It's almost like they thought bringing on 3 voices saying "nah, this is nothing" would negate all the research that has been done. Again, we could be totally off base, but I just don't think so. The thing that upsets me is that I respect these people, and they are the experts....doesn't mean they know everything, but they have dedicated a large part of their life to these studies. Maybe they are too close to the forest to see the trees....maybe we are the ones that have it wrong. We'll see I guess, but I don't think it's in God's character to come without warning/sign.
    As for date setting/imminence - if date setting is all it takes to keep God away, then Satan could easily win. Being that he is the greatest deceiver in history and the Father of lies, all he would have to do is deceive 365 people into setting a date each year. 365 out of 7.5 billion people. Brad you say Jan 1st, Lance you say Jan 2nd...so on & so on. Anyway, great thoughts. My last thing would be to offer caution on the "persecuted Billy" thing. I'm not saying that any persecution for your beliefs on Rev 12 (whatever they are)is okay, but I am saying this was a one sided retelling of what happened. As always, this isn't a salvational issue, and I so appreciate your site.

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    1. totally agree Lance. If you are going to broadcast to 800+ stations about a supposed sign from God.... well then don't you owe it to your listeners to at least LEARN what it is that we are saying? The complete mischaracterization was very frustrating... but thank God I have grown so much since this Spring... now it really didn't get me all that worked up like it would have. It's almost like arguing with someone who has never been outdoors about the existence of the moon. At some point you need to realize the only way they will get it if they see it for themselves.... but to do that you must Look Up! Same principal applies here.

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  7. I have a hard time understanding why Christian leaders who are trying to preach to people the undeniable nearness of Christ's return are so dismissive of this major sign and all of the evidence surrounding it. I have heard each of these leaders mentioned above (all of whom I greatly respect regardless of a difference of opinion in this matter) speak with a passionate desire to let others know that we are certainly in the season of Christ's return. Given that the Rev 12 sign in the heavens, clearly substantiates that which they have been preaching for years- that the return of Christ is certainly near- I assumed they would be elated at this. I have listened to each of them independently teach that Christians should be awake and alert because things are happening all around us- yet they are so unwilling to personally study this sign with an open heart and mind. If this alignment was truly a matter of coincidence and nothing more than folly, this whole event would have been proven out of existence already. There would have been a dozen or more reasons why mistakes were made, things don't line up with feast days, a tiny element or many are missing, not enough scripture to substantiate, etc. I guess sadly, I am not sure if any of these pastors really believe what they have been teaching all along. Do they REALLY think his return is close? Or is it just a topic they like to talk about never really believing it could ACTUALLY happen? If I was teaching nearness, and then attempting to debunk sign that proved my point of nearness to be absolutely CORRECT, I would be questioning if I truly, in my heart, believe what I am expecting others to.

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    1. Brad,
      Excellent points and article. It did seem odd that they at times inferred to ‘signs’ as well, but not those they had or have ‘discovered’. I believe that at the core of the issue regarding the Rev 12 Sign is Pride. One facet as to why such ‘wise and learned’ refuse to weigh the evidence in an unbiased manner is that they ‘did not discover it first’. It does challenge their position as their followers could or would ask, why if such are supposed to be the ‘prophets and watchmen of the day’, did they not see this coming? Here we have perhaps the greatest Sign YHVH is giving the Body and the world with precursors of eclipses pegged to the season or repentance. It is the Sign also that infers the Gospel and thus contested, yet ‘the wise and learned’ missed it. One can imagine if such would have, no doubt with their financial resources would have perhaps by now made books, movies, conferences, etc., like some with the Blood Moons. I think the LORD was making sure, oh, not this time. This Revelation 12 Sign that was decreed was given to discern to the ‘no names, the no bodies’….to decode and teach; no claims of fame nor glory sought, etc.

      And this is at the core of those that the LORD has given the Sign to; the humble, the ‘Little Children’ as Jesus stated. Consider Matthew 11:-24-25, Jesus said, ‘But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the Day of Judgment than for you. At that time Jesus declared, I praise You, Father, Lord of Heaven and Earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to Little Children. Yes, Father, for this was well-pleasing in Your sight.’

      As the LORD has given understanding of what is to happen on Earth as LORD of Earth, does He not also as LORD of Heaven reveal what is happening in the Heavenlies as well that will also affect Earth? Isn’t the book of Revelation all about that?! May those that the LORD has honored with bestowing such revelation and understanding of the Revelation 12 Sign and others of what is to come, be like Daniel, like Joseph and remain composed and humble for such a privilege as the LORD seeks to ‘wake-up’ the Church in these Last Days with such Heavenly Signs as the Revelation 12 Sign and more.

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    2. Lu Vega, I think you hit the nail right on the head.

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    3. Luke 18:8 takes on more meaning each day we draw closer. (Steve)

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    4. Totally agree Linda/Lu Vega - God reveals these things to the humble and lowly, in order to show that God and God alone is to receive praise, honour and glory, and is making it very difficult for the mainstream preachers/prophets to receive any honour for this sign.

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    5. Well put Lu and all.... and how truly humbling it is that He has seemingly chosen all of us to share this message with his precious people, while the other 'more qualified' teachers are seemingly left in the dark.

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  8. A couple months ago Jan shared a link about the sign on her Facebook page that in no uncertain terms completely presented the astronomical event that is going to take place next month as nothing but a scam. She said that Christians don't need ASTROLOGY and that's what people were trying to sell in connection with the sign. Other popular ministry leaders have also jumped on the "we don't need signs" bandwagon and are flat out telling their followers that these things need to be dismiss and avoided at all costs. The truly frightening thing is that when you try to have a conversation - a polite conversation - about what Scripture says about signs in the heavens, and about the fact that this is astronomy and not astrology, and that we each need to study the Scriptures for ourselves to see if these things line up with it, these folks have blindly thrown in with their particular ministry leader and won't even think about going against them. The ministry leaders have become the ones they follow rather than Messiah, and the ministry leaders do not one thing to dissuade these people from blindly following them. In fact I keep seeing the ministry leaders berate and run down those who dare to believe differently from them. As for date setting, I personally think that if the rapture is going to happen this year it will happen on Rosh HaShanna, not when the sign happens the day after simply because God has fulfilled the Spring feasts on the exact days of the feasts so I'm assuming that He will fulfill the Fall feasts with the same precision and accuracy He did with the Spring feasts. =) One other thought. These ministries that are flat out denying that there's any possibility that this event has anything to do with Scripture without even looking into it themselves all seem to want to keep their followers focused on the worldly, fear-inducing events/signs that we are seeing increase every day. Why would God not want to give us a wonderfully beautiful sign in the heavens that would give us hope by showing us that He truly knows the end from the beginning and that He planned this all along?

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    1. Well said, Linda. Instead of getting depressed by constantly talking about the spread of evil in the U.S. and abroad, God has gotten our attention by getting us to look up...because our redemption is near!

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    2. Yes it is incredibly frustrating to see our 'favourite' teachers totally rubbish this sign without much in the way of thought going into the arguments. I have 'followed' Jacob Prasch's teachings for a long time now, and was excited to see that he had put out a youtube clip on the rev12 sign. However, after the first 30 seconds of "this is astrology", I knew the rest would be biased,/rubbish and haven't read his emails since. Sorry Jacob - but pride comes before fall.

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    3. This sign is a measuring device..... it will check your heart and your theology a hundred different ways.... I love this quote by Harry Ironside in 1918:

      "I have read or carefully examined several hundred books purporting
      to expound the Revelation. I have learned to look upon this twelfth
      chapter as the crucial test in regard to the correct prophetic outline.
      If the interpreters are wrong as to the woman and the man-child, it
      necessarily follows that they will be wrong as to many things
      connected with them."

      Later on Harry says this"

      "Is there then any incongruity in
      understanding the man-child to represent both Christ Jesus our
      Lord and His church? Surely not, for He is the Head of the body,
      the church, which is the fullness, or completion of Himself, so that
      the title, “The Church” is applied to both head and body viewed as
      one in 1 Cor. 12:12. . . . We may then, on the authority of Scripture
      itself, safely affirm that the man-child represents the one New Man
      who is to rule the nations with a rod of iron—Christ, the Head, and
      the church, His body. If this be so, then it is impossible that the
      woman should symbolize the church."

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    4. Brad, love those quotes. It's funny because I've been studying eschatology for about 30 years now and I have never ever heard of Ironside. About ten years ago the Lord stopped me in my tracks and some things happened that shook me to the core. At that time He had me examine every single thing that I believed and measure it against Scripture. As I said, it's been ten years since then and I have had my assumptions challenged left and right. With this sign in the heavens I feel that the Lord is showing me even more how there are certain well accepted doctrines in the church that are acceptable to talk about even if they are conflicting, i.e. dispensationalism vs. replacement theology, pre-trib vs. post-trib, etc. No matter what the "versus" is, it's okay as long as it keeps people away from Scripture and away from the signs that God is giving us. The Lord is really stripping away all of the worldly church junk and showing Himself mighty - at least for me. :) All of this has also reminded me of Proverbs 3:19-24 - "Adonai by wisdom founded the earth, by understanding he established the heavens, by his knowledge the deep [springs] burst open and the dew condenses from the sky. My son, don’t let these slip from your sight; preserve common sense and discretion;
      they will be life for your being and grace for your neck. Then you will walk your way securely,
      without hurting your foot. When you lie down, you will not be afraid; when you lie down, your sleep will be sweet." We can indeed rest easy knowing that that God is indeed in control!

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    5. Brad, the Ironside quote from 1918 even gets more ironic if we consider that the whole astronomical picture wasn't yet revealed in the stars by then... ;)

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    6. As a complement to Ironside's thoughts: I found this in a book I have had since I first got saved in the early 1970s called The Millennium Bible: A complete Commentary on All Scripture Passages Related to the Second Coming by William Biederwolf. Basically, this book goes through hundreds of verses, from Genesis to Revelation that relate to the End Times, the Rapture, the Tribulation, the Second Coming, the Millennial Kingdom, and the eternal future. It gives commentary on these verses by many theologians. It was first published in 1924.

      For Revelation 12:5, after it goes through all the "usual" interpretations, it states this: "Petingill, Mackintosh and a few others have a curious idea here. They think the "catching up" does not refer to the historical, bodily ascension of Christ from the Mount of Olives, but to His spiritual body, believers who are to be caught up at the coming rapture, that the manchild therefore is still in progress of birth, the Church not being fully formed as yet...."

      I have no idea who Petingill and Mackintosh were, but apparently, they got it.

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    7. Can you take a picture of that and email it to me? Awesome!

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    8. The original publication date was 1924, and I have this 1999 edition. https://www.amazon.com/Millennium-Bible-Complete-Commentary-Scripture/dp/1585580023/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1503979130&sr=8-2&keywords=The+Millennium+Bible

      The part I quoted is on page 623.

      I am not all that tech-savvy. If I take a pic with my phone, how can I send it to you ?

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    9. Brad--- to clarify. The book was originally published in 1924. I got a copy of it in the early 70s when I was just saved. That one looked like this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51sAZ8iytbL._SL300_.jpg

      I gave that away to an interested person in the 90s and then re-bought the book on Amazon, getting a copy published in 1999. I used it (up until recently) to try to unravel the OT prophets concerning future events. It is a goldmine.

      There is another interesting passage that states what most of us now see--- that Revelation is not written in strict chronological order. Comments on Rev. 12:1-17 (p.620) begin with:

      "Says Moorehead, 'After the Seventh Trumpet has sounded and the consummation is at length come, the Seer goes back and starts once more with a fresh vision.'

      "Elliott of the Consecutive Historical School says that this vision and the two subsequent ones are supplemental and explanatory of what has gone before and that they have therefore a retrogressive character.'

      It is very interesting and encouraging to see that there were Christians in the past who understood and taught that Revelation is not written in chronological order, that the child spoken of in Rev. 12 represents the church, and that the Rapture is represented by what we see in Rev. 12. Gee, after seeing what flak we are getting today over our beliefs, imagine what they were up against. They, a small minority, were functioning in the days of Replacement Theology, yet they boldly spoke.

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    10. Myrrh, this is truly amazing! That means true revelation to these scriptures was already given to the body of Christ BEFORE WW2 but afterwards final endtimes corruption of the 1968 lawlessness revolution helped to forget about that whereas Laodicean spirit crept into endtimes church. TY for this stunning information! Much love, stay blessed! :)

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  9. 1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven;...Evidently they don't see it as very GREAT!
    So why is it it seems they have a veal over there eyes? This so reminds me of a great sign I received while in prayer for a miracle healing, when the heat with the Holy Spirit entered my body, and when it left me the pain went with it, and I was instantly healed.
    Three letters looking like a white tattoo were left on my left jaw. It took three years in Abba's word before the Ruach Holy Spirit reveled they are letters from Aramaic Hebrew.
    It was then I received a call telling me of an old family secret that I was Jewish from my mother's side.
    Just like this Rev.12 sign, you can imagine I have had many doubter's, until they really take a good look at my face, and then can tell I couldn't have put them there. Just as all the Orthodox Jews I have shown it to they say they can't make any sense of them...I have been told they absolutely can read it, but won't say, because my witnessing includes Yeshua.
    All I can tell you my friends is the Messianic Jews, two of them, the doctor that did my knee surgery said to him the letters say OUR GOD!...and the Spanish Jew that was one of our Navy pilot's flying our F-18's off our Carriers, he said to him it say's Yahweh.
    As you can see I may have more anticipation (excitement) in this coming sign being I may get the reason of why me Father...it has been a heavy burden at times, and then at times it has been such a blessing.
    I have no problem showing this seal given to me from YAHWEH...He didn't put it there for me to hide, if you wish to see it, just mail me at...jkscottco@gmail.com Shalom

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  10. I have called both Billy and Jack and asked to talk to them directly. I have also called Jan. I have gotten no response. I was irate at their arrogant statement that no known credible teacher teaches what we do on the subject. When people claim to be Sola Scriptura and make such a popish statement I become irate. Truth is not determined by the authority of the person saying it. Period.

    1 Corinthians 1: 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

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    1. Brad, it is also very disturbing that they are now equating those that done line up with their thinking to Antifa. That is not only extreme, but very irresponsible. Why would they say that fellow believers in Messiah are on equal footing with an extremist, communist, terrorist organization? Don't they understand the division and fear they are sowing in the body?

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  11. Brad, The Revelation 12 sign and other signs are blessing from God, like a wedding shower gift to the Bride before the wedding day. It is a wonderful joy to have this gift. I am "awakened" to my First love, in a way that I was awaken at the first, that when I was born again. A the time of my salvation my earthly family did not understand the excitement of my salvation and I was sorrowful and frustrated that they did not understand the joy of my salvation. But now, at such a time as this, my local Church Spiritual family, my brothers and sisters in Christ, do not understand the Great Sign and share the excitement of this finding.

    I think part of the problem is that the Church has not properly taught the understanding of God's word concerning the phrase "no one knows the day of the hour". Jesus spoke these words to the Jews who did not see the cross, the resurrection, the Church and the Rapture of the Church. But we have God's word through Paul to watch and be ready.

    We are ready and listening Lord Jesus, speak to Your Bride.

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    1. Now, that's what I'm talking about!!

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    2. Daniel Matson has done a neat mini-teaching on the greek of "no one knows the day or the hour". Encourage you to read it, as it is one of those "how did I miss that!" moments.

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    3. Love Daniel's work...great investigative work!

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    4. Amen! and Amen!
      YSIC Kay

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    5. You are correct Roger. It seems as though the enemy placed multiple land mines throughout history to deter many from seeing the truth about this sign. Thankfully Gods word will not return empty! Isaiah 55:10-11

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  12. I love listening to Jan Markell and I credit her for my desire to know more about the end times and the coming of our Lord but I feel they are not giving Christians credit here. Preach it! Give the church the facts for and against and then let them choose whether they want to believe. I know for a fact that if the rapture doesn't happen on September 23 I will still believe that it will happen some day! Our faith in the Lord should be steadfast and if for some reason a Christian chooses to lose their trust in God because it didn't happen like the signs are showing then their faith is weak and they need to reevaluate what it is they believe. We should always be watching because we don't know when it will happen.

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    1. Agreed... She too has helped me greatly. But give us some credit here.... do she really think we are all so stupid? The same Holy Spirit is in us that is in her.... have alittle humility..... none of us know everything.... But as a Body we should work together!

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  13. I suppose I am erroneously projecting my own sinful humanity onto our Lord, but I cannot help but sometimes wonder if He does not grow really weary of His kids bickering among ourselves as we struggle to see truth clearly through a mirror dimly lit. I really do not understand how people who say they love Jesus, are looking for His return, and have a track record of what appears to be some good fruit, can have such an utterly dismissive attitude towards the Revelation 12 sign? It truly perplexes and saddens me. I am sure it is carnal pettiness (aka sin) on my part, but I would be less than candid if I did not admit to entertaining the following thought: If we do end up going home on or around 9/23, I would be in favor of a 30-second timeout from the Lord upon our arrival at Abba's house for all those who have discounted and ignored His great sign. No shaming. Just a moment for God to convey something to the effect, "You know, they were right." Watchman35

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    1. Ron... I get your point but I would say this. When we are transformed and glorified and standing before JESUS face to face.... I believe any "I told you so" type thoughts will be non-existent. The truth will be known to be sure, but we will also know that ALL of it came directly from Jesus... who is THE TRUTH. I don't think there will be any pride or shame as both of those will have been eradicated. Perhaps they will feel bad for misleading others or telling them to ignore such a great thing.... but it was all part of Gods plan and He will comfort them and surely we will LOVE them just as if they had been with us all along.

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  14. 2 cents for my brethren. I had "stayed away" (like xyz) from the 2016 interest in the Revelation 12 sign, because I had checked it in around 2013-2104 when it was close, but no cigar, and afterwards I had heard 100 dates for the rapture.... BUT, in march or so, I decided "I had to check it" (unlike xyz) because Jesus coming for us is the "most important thing in the world". After 20 or 30 minutes of watching Scottie's videos, whom I knew from 2012 and the best rapture video etc; I just "HIT THE CEILING" and bounced right back on my chair.

    Being cautious does not relieve us from the duty of searching out a matter, as noble-hearted bereans. You are blessed my dear brethren, and my love is all over you for walking constantly in faith up to today, going from grace to grace to coming grace. Hallel u Yah! Daniel

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    1. I had the exact same experience! When Scottie was talking about it a few years back as a "Mid-Trib Sign" I did not get all that excited about it, but I did watch very closely. And when the time came and went for a rapture 3.5 years before "the sign" I was somewhat disappointed, but just went back to watching and waiting. [Notice: When it was presented as a "Mid-Trib" sign there was not much excitement. Few were on board. But look at the difference with what is going on now!] But as with you, it was last March that I began seeing Youtube videos come up about it again on my side-bar and I decided to watch one. I did not "hit the ceiling" with the first one as you did. It was about after 5 of them and BAM! My eyes flew open. Being a very cautious person (not wanting to do any disservice to the Lord) I began to research it intensely. I also watched every debunking video (There weren't many back then.), starting with Joel Richardson. They had nothing (just like now.) After a few more weeks of research that confirmed it, I began to cautiously share it with a few who I knew longed for the Lord's coming. They embraced it with joy. Then all h-e-double toothpicks broke out with the scoffers. But the more they scoffed and debunked, the more vivid and true The Sign has become.

      My dear brother/sister Anonymous (Daniel?), the Lord blessed us with the same experience at apparently the same time. That in and of itself encourages me!

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  15. I for one would be very careful and do my homework before I go out and attack something so massively prophetic as "The Revelation 12 Sign".

    If this sign is telling us when to prepare for his return, flippantly blowing it off may carry some spiritual risk. Even though I don't totally understand the next two verses, they should be taken seriously.

    Revelation 22:18-19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book:  if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

    If you say the "Revelation 12 Sign" is nothing, when in fact it may be telling us of the start of the tribulation and rapture, you could be "taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy".
    Something I think all of us would like to avoid!

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    1. Now I hadn't considered that. Food for thought. Barbara

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    2. George, that was/is my point ever too, TY! I always try to focus on what GOD the Father (!!!) tells us with this sign: He announces His most beloved and only Son Jesus Christ (!!!) to return and judgement to begin! To me it is always absurd and incomprehensible how even Christians might not understand the very spiritual meaning of all this but only debating some neat "astronomical coincidence" depicted in the Heavens. TY again for emphasizing this here! Stay blessed brother! :)

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  16. I await the Rev 12 sign with eager anticipation. If the Rapture does not happen then oh well. At the very least we are living in the SEASON of Rev 12. That's enough to keep me going!

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  17. A Picture worth many words!! >>>>> Image follows >>>> https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21034735_10213844025158892_7574123172786563480_n.jpg?oh=5772e393017dde4b8495b613602c879b&oe=5A5D6020

    Hi Brad, Thanks again for the added excellent comments, and to all those who have added to this discussion! EVERYONE, please open this Image above...it shows the Shepherds looking at the STAR, and make the statement it kinda looks like a sign but the Bible states, we are not to seek after them.
    This is of course a sarcastic cut, at all the scoffing going on out there. Think if the WISE Men Had been told by there pastor , dont believe this sign it is just a bunch of hype or date setting!! dont Watch it or follow it!
    I agree with so many here, that all these scoffing teachers are pouring cold water on our looking/HOPE for HIS appearing: when they should be the ones glad to see the DAY coming that they have preached, that we should ALL be awaiting, for so many years!! Ron Garbe.

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    1. Love it Ron. Great pic! Yes... you would think that because the return of Christ is so HUGE, so IMPORTNAT, even if there was a 1% chance this was correct they would be diving in head first trying to see if in fact it was true.... not spending time telling others to ignore it when clearly they haven't done their homework.

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  18. What is Not being understood is that nobody set that date. No human set that date.

    The fact that the stellar alignments in the constellation of Virgo and Leo set that date means that God set that date when he created the stellar orders.

    The fact that God set the date and John tells you it is a great sign theat occurs in the Shamayim meants that this sign is from God and that yes it matches exactly what is written in Revelation 12:1-2.

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    1. Phx, isn't that the amazing thing in all of this? In every single aspect, of every single detail, from the world to the Wonder to the Word, we simply ponder the patently obvious and marvel while the others look on and say, "What?" Maranatha!

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    2. Yes, John was shown the date.... but it was shown with an unique alignment of planets and stars rather than with calendars and numbers. What happens on that date (if anything) is up for discussion... what seems abundantly clear after even the most minimal honest study is this.... God singled out 9-23-17 in the heavens for some divine purpose.

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  19. Wow, just HAVE to share what Doug L posted at Five Doves under, "Dead Bodies Everywhere". If this doesn't sum it up, oh my,

    As the end of the Church age draws near and the Bride has listened to the Spirit and come out from the dead churches - the vultures (false prophets, leaders and teachers) will gather, pick through and consume the dead body......

    “Where will this happen, Lord?” the disciples asked.
    Jesus replied, “Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near.” Luke 17:37

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  20. 1 Corinthians 4:10 King James Version

    10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.

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    1. Yes, Barry Scarborough had a great talk on this exact point yesterday... makes perfect sense to me now.

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  21. I was just listening to JR, who mentioned a pastor of 16000 in USA, who - although the pastor believed in a pre-trib rapture, he invited preachers to come and speak on pre-wrath and post-trib positions. The reason: he wanted his church to be well prepared in case he was wrong on his pre-trib beliefs. I thought that was awesome, and serves as a great example as to how 'prophets' and preachers should be treating the Rev12 sign. They can make known their beliefs (if they don't believe), but they should be giving due opportunity for someone who holds to the Rev12 sign to make a biblical and professional (if I can say that word) exposition of the Rev12/23 Sept event. A good lesson for us all.

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    1. That would be helpful.... instead of quenching the hope.... I wish these debunking ministries would let both sides have a say and then trust the Holy Spirit to lead the faithful to all truth.

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  22. This comment was posted by Amir about an hour ago on a FB post that has caused quite a lot of conversation. It looks like he's doubling down and now calling those who are taking this sign seriously unbelievers. Here's his comment.

    "What gets lost here in translation is that We as Believers should not be focused on the signs that Jesus is returning, because we have the sure Word of God that tells us He is coming. Sadly, many who call themselves Believers (i.e. Pharisees) were seeking signs, yet missed Jesus in the flesh because they weren't going by what was made known to them in the Scriptures. They were looking for what they wanted to see and not going by what the Word of God said. So, that can apply today as well. Unbelievers can be represented as those who call themselves Believers and they are so busy looking at the signs, they miss Him because they do not know or understand the Scriptures."

    And of course, I just couldn't help myself, so I replied to him. I know that he won't respond, but here's what I wrote.

    "That's very interesting in light of the fact that it is in Scripture that we are told to understand very specific signs. Yeshua Himself gave a lengthy list of signs to watch for that would tell us that the end is fast approaching. Paul also tells us that we who believe, who are of the light, are to know by the signs that we see when the return of our Lord is to take place so that we don't get taken by surprise. And again in His letters to the seven churches in Revelation Yeshua Himself states that if a person doesn't wake up then He will come as a thief in the night, but that we should rather be awake so that we do not get caught by surprise. Paul and Yeshua both state that believers should not be taken by surprise at His return, that we are to know when He is coming because of what Scripture says - because of the signs on the earth and in the heavens. Scripture also says that there was a sign in the heavens when Yeshua was born. The ones who were waiting and watching for that sign (the Maji) knew exactly what was happening. Also, the religious establishment knew exactly who Yeshua was but were afraid because their positions of power and their livelihood were being threatened. They were pushing to try to shore up their position that they were right and He was wrong. Yeshua told them that they should have known the time of their visitation. How? Because of the signs and prophecies in Scripture, but they turned their back on Scripture instead. How is it that now when a person looks for what Scripture says is going to come, as Scripture says to do, that makes them an unbeliever? It seems that things are getting turned on their head. If you can tell us where in Scripture it says that we are not to know the times in which we live or to look for the specific signs that Scripture says we are to look for that would be helpful."

    I just feel like we need to hold these folks accountable and not let them get away with this if for no other reason than perhaps it will make someone who sees it wake up and think about the situation.

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    1. Excellent reply, Linda. I too am baffled, no, shocked by people such as Amir and Jan coming out so aggressively against the Revelation 12 sign. So many who have built their ministries on "discerning the times" are failing to see what is right before their eyes. Even worse, they are trying to turn people away from the very signs the Lord has given us.

      Let's strengthen ourselves with passages such as I Thessalonians 5:1-11: " Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness. 6So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing."

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    2. Linda, as you quoted Amir, his words can as well be understood correctly in just saying "if you aren't really sealed by the holy spirit yet (= i.e. just professing " Christian" but not yet saved) you oughtn't focus on the sign because this is not what can save. Only faith in Christ will John 3:3." So if he meant this he was indeed right about it. The Rev12-sign is for REAL SAINTS only, anyone who is not saved but believes in the sign only will NOT profit from it but be left behind. I want to mention that this might after all be or have been Amirs concern as I don't know his general attitude towards Rev12-sign. Much love! :)

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    3. Annabel, I understand what you're saying, but this comment taken in conjunction with the other comments he has been making, as well as joining ranks with Jan Markell and others who are railing against believers who are taking this sign seriously, I'm afraid your assumption isn't correct.

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    4. Its OK Linda, TY for clarification! I hear you, just didn't want to judge without really knowing the context. Much love, sister! ;-)

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