It's not Astrology! - Omega Letter Debunking Response
As I type this first sentence it is 12:01am. I told myself I wouldn't read it until the morning... I should have known I would be sitting here... and of course I have to get up early tomorrow. Oh well, here we go... : )
The Omega Letter put out a commentary today (well technically yesterday I suppose) about the Revelation 12 Sign. It is titled: September 23, 2017- Doomsday I read the article before bed. That was a bad idea on my part.... Here is how it starts:
Notice above how it takes the author exactly 0 words to get to a condescending statement. "Here we go again." Of course we could say the same thing... Here we go again with another debunking attempt from a prophecy expert that is heavy on the condescension and light on actual arguments.
I can feel myself getting worked up here...I need to pray:
Lord, help me return good toward this man. Help me shine light on this darkness. Help me type the words that you would type if you were sitting here. Help me not be me, but help me be you in this moment. Do not let me stoop to his level... help me rise above. -Amen
Ok, I feel better now. I will try to not be condescending like he was. These articles bother me though, especially when they get shared so gleefully to thousands of followers like below:
In the opening paragraphs you probably noticed that the author, J.L. Robb, chose to frame his article on the premise that this is just another one of those "predictions". He has automatically lumped it into the same bin as every single previous false prophecy prediction there has ever been. Any professional investigator will tell you that a presupposition like that will keep you from seeing the TRUTH no matter what the evidence is to the contrary. In a way it makes you blind because you only see what you want to see. We are all guilty of it sometimes I suppose, but I suspect that because of this, Robbs letter is the easiest thing he has ever had to write. That is because he already knows how it ends before looking at the first bit of information... That's the danger of presuppositions. More on this later....lets read what he has to say:
These 3 paragraphs focus on the Blood Moons and how some people got rich and nothing happened. My first question is this.... why are people so shocked that nothing happened on the last Blood Moon? Joel 2:31 clearly says the word BEFORE. Blood Moons are before the Day of the Lord. If something does happen this year well then clearly that prophecy would be considered perfectly fulfilled. 2015 was before 2017. This looks to me like another presupposition.
Next, he suggests we are trying to make this happen. I am sorry but I was just living my life normally when this sign hit me like a ton of bricks. It's a precise alignment of celestial objects in the sky just as written in the Bible. It's a sign I can view anytime I want on my laptop or in the night sky (partially fulfilled) and compare it to an open Bible. It also just so happens that this alignment is smack dab in the middle of the Book of Revelation! So yes, I find it quite relevant to my daily life. We are not making it happen, we are responding to a sign that possibly points to something HAPPENING TO US!
Ok calm down Brad.... Lord be with me. : )
Ok, Robb says there will be signs...but the last days signs with be different. Different is an interesting word. This sign is sure different alright.... It fits the text precisely! That makes it different from those previous signs he is so tore up about.
Lets move on....
Next he brings in the Bible, which I do appreciate. His point is that Luke 21:25 will be obvious. Just as obvious as the beautiful rainbow in Genesis 9:12-13. Signs so obvious that you would have to be blind not to see them. Surely all the major prophetic experts would recognize a 'Great Sign' if it was to be fulfilled right under/above their very noses right? Just like the experts recognized the signs of Jesus's first coming in Matt 2:3-4? Oh wait, the experts back then missed it too...
The wisdom found in Ecc 1:9 comes to mind.
Next up we finally get into talking about the Rev12 Sign. According to the reports it will be YET ANOTHER "special alignment". His sarcasm is so thick you would think he is writing for a secular website doing a review about a failed sitcom starring Bill Cosby. I do admit you can poke fun at the countdowns found on the page he referenced. Countdowns only work for things like the launch of a NASA rocket and baking pumpkin pies (so I've heard anyways). Those things are at least under man's control. Biblical prophecies are under the sole control of Almighty God. All we can do is watch for them and respond when we see one.
Next he refers back to that book written 40 years ago that was so wrong. I surmise that he believes that since the solar system wasn't "warped" last time around surely nothing will happen this time either. That is another presupposition... a false one at that, because it is assuming that all predictions are all the same regardless of the evidence.
Yes, here we finally have some good information!!! Of course, the vast majority of it was written by my pal Daniel Matson, but still, its so refreshing! Notice at the top how the debunking author even says how the alignment appears to fulfill the sign. But only at first glance he says... If I had to guess his presupposition is fighting for its life about now.... "No. No. This cannot be correct no matter how perfectly it fits. This is just another one of those silly predictions remember.... Astrology, Astrology!!" But you can tell he kind of wants to believe... Come on brother, believe! It's ok to do it. After all, God made these things for signs! (Gen 1:14)
Now, if you read the portion of Daniel Matson's text you will notice something important wasn't included. The 9 month Jupiter loop is simply left out, just like it was by this previous debunker. No mention of the Jupiter loop at all. Its like he selectively clipped Daniel's article just before getting to that major detail. Could it be that if someone knew about that unique, precise, amazing detail it just might cause them to think for a second that this Great Sign could possibly be true? The king planet doing a loop in the womb area of a woman for the period of human gestation....of course it could! So rather than address it, it is easier to just not share that bit of info to the readers. That's not right in my opinion. That could be called by some bearing false witness... but I would prefer not calling something an outright sin when we are all just trying to grow closer to God and study His word, right?
Ok, I guess that's just me...according to him we are all sinning big-time. We are apparently practicing astrology. But this is getting serious now. In his mind any sign in the sky that is not super obvious like a rainbow must be astrology. He calls it an astrological sign. In fact he uses some form of the a-word 3 times in a 13 word span! I agree, astrology is a serious sin, but let me be clear about studying this sign...
But in all seriousness this argument is not fair at all, not in the least. Even honest sceptics of the sign point out how this is a false accusation. It just goes to show you how successful Satan's plan to cover-up Gods heavenly signs has been. Its a two pronged strategy:
First, distort the constellations into fortune telling and horoscopes which will then;
Second, cause all Christians to be repulsed by anything relating to the stars.
It has clearly worked to a large extent, thankfully many of us have seen past this lie...
This paragraph here is filled with the a-word again. The scary Zodiac word is in there too. It seems that these debunkers will do anything to tie this sign to that satanic garbage and deflect from an actual discussion of facts and relevant bible passages such as Micah 5:2-5. I wonder if he has ever read Job 9:9, Job 38:32, or Amos 5:8 and pondered if they are astrology too? As you can see, right there in the Holy Bible are names of specific, wait for it....... CONSTELLATIONS! And if you are really good you caught how in Job 38:32 God himself takes credit for bringing out those constellations. The word used is Mazzaroth which is the actual Hebrew word for the 12 main Constellations (known to us as the Zodiac). This is something the Jews were clearly familiar with as they inlaid them into their synagogs. And God is behind them according to the text. So are they really to be avoided at all costs no matter the circumstances as the author suggests? Or is it possible that our amazing God could and would use these arrangements of stars to tell a story we need to hear?
Satan can distort them to the moon and back, but right there in the oldest book of the Bible we see God himself taking credit for the constellations. So please can we stop calling anyone who mentions the them in a biblical discussion an astrologer? Update: Commenter Jonathan shared this...
Ok, we are near the end. I am doing pretty good, it is only 1:24 am. His closing argument is this.... It's hard to see the sign, basically because of Walmart. Now I am not a big fan of Walmart either, but we have shopped there a lot lately due to a certain bathroom situation at the store down the street. Walmart has not been great for small town America, but to blame them for this is too much my dear brother! Too much I say! (sorry its getting late). FYI, I have a Walmart about 2 miles away, a city street light in my yard and neighbors all around and yet I can walk 2 steps out my front door and see Leo and Virgo, with Jupiter shining as bright as a royal king right above my house. Yes, light pollution is a problem, but don't tell me these things are impossible to see. And of course we have trusty ol' Stellarium, a software program with a precedent of being used to make amazing biblical discoveries!
Additionally, what should be making him scratch his head is the fact is that God has placed this AMAZINGLY PRECISE sign above ours heads for all to see yet so few of Gods people are paying attention! Mr Robb, oh how I wish you and all your like-minded colleagues could look for a moment with an open mind and recognize what seems to be clear to so many of us. But instead of studying it you guys are writing poorly researched articles against this Great Sign that will be shared countless times to your unsuspecting followers, who probably won't bother to study it for themselves like they should (Acts 17:11).
That there is what makes me scratch my head friends. He says we will know.... in love all I can say is that maybe if the experts and debunkers actually looked past their presuppositions and stopped calling anything above the horizon line astrology, they would know. There are so many of us who recognize it and many of us are willing to defend what we see as a likely fulfillment of Gods awesome and inerrant word.
What will happen surrounding this sign is up for debate... and I believe will find out when we get there. But to me this alignment speaks for itself (Psalm 19:1-4) and in my opinion it is speaking loud and clear to those with ears to hear!
With that I am going to bed... Can somebody please send this to the author for me? : )
The Omega Letter put out a commentary today (well technically yesterday I suppose) about the Revelation 12 Sign. It is titled: September 23, 2017- Doomsday I read the article before bed. That was a bad idea on my part.... Here is how it starts:
Notice above how it takes the author exactly 0 words to get to a condescending statement. "Here we go again." Of course we could say the same thing... Here we go again with another debunking attempt from a prophecy expert that is heavy on the condescension and light on actual arguments.
I can feel myself getting worked up here...I need to pray:
Lord, help me return good toward this man. Help me shine light on this darkness. Help me type the words that you would type if you were sitting here. Help me not be me, but help me be you in this moment. Do not let me stoop to his level... help me rise above. -Amen
Ok, I feel better now. I will try to not be condescending like he was. These articles bother me though, especially when they get shared so gleefully to thousands of followers like below:
In the opening paragraphs you probably noticed that the author, J.L. Robb, chose to frame his article on the premise that this is just another one of those "predictions". He has automatically lumped it into the same bin as every single previous false prophecy prediction there has ever been. Any professional investigator will tell you that a presupposition like that will keep you from seeing the TRUTH no matter what the evidence is to the contrary. In a way it makes you blind because you only see what you want to see. We are all guilty of it sometimes I suppose, but I suspect that because of this, Robbs letter is the easiest thing he has ever had to write. That is because he already knows how it ends before looking at the first bit of information... That's the danger of presuppositions. More on this later....lets read what he has to say:
Next, he suggests we are trying to make this happen. I am sorry but I was just living my life normally when this sign hit me like a ton of bricks. It's a precise alignment of celestial objects in the sky just as written in the Bible. It's a sign I can view anytime I want on my laptop or in the night sky (partially fulfilled) and compare it to an open Bible. It also just so happens that this alignment is smack dab in the middle of the Book of Revelation! So yes, I find it quite relevant to my daily life. We are not making it happen, we are responding to a sign that possibly points to something HAPPENING TO US!
Ok calm down Brad.... Lord be with me. : )
Ok, Robb says there will be signs...but the last days signs with be different. Different is an interesting word. This sign is sure different alright.... It fits the text precisely! That makes it different from those previous signs he is so tore up about.
Lets move on....
The wisdom found in Ecc 1:9 comes to mind.
Next he refers back to that book written 40 years ago that was so wrong. I surmise that he believes that since the solar system wasn't "warped" last time around surely nothing will happen this time either. That is another presupposition... a false one at that, because it is assuming that all predictions are all the same regardless of the evidence.
Now, if you read the portion of Daniel Matson's text you will notice something important wasn't included. The 9 month Jupiter loop is simply left out, just like it was by this previous debunker. No mention of the Jupiter loop at all. Its like he selectively clipped Daniel's article just before getting to that major detail. Could it be that if someone knew about that unique, precise, amazing detail it just might cause them to think for a second that this Great Sign could possibly be true? The king planet doing a loop in the womb area of a woman for the period of human gestation....of course it could! So rather than address it, it is easier to just not share that bit of info to the readers. That's not right in my opinion. That could be called by some bearing false witness... but I would prefer not calling something an outright sin when we are all just trying to grow closer to God and study His word, right?
Ok, I guess that's just me...according to him we are all sinning big-time. We are apparently practicing astrology. But this is getting serious now. In his mind any sign in the sky that is not super obvious like a rainbow must be astrology. He calls it an astrological sign. In fact he uses some form of the a-word 3 times in a 13 word span! I agree, astrology is a serious sin, but let me be clear about studying this sign...
It's not astrology!Just to be sure I asked my wife if she has seen me bowing down to the sun, moon or stars lately... She thought about it for a while then thankfully cleared me of all charges!
But in all seriousness this argument is not fair at all, not in the least. Even honest sceptics of the sign point out how this is a false accusation. It just goes to show you how successful Satan's plan to cover-up Gods heavenly signs has been. Its a two pronged strategy:
First, distort the constellations into fortune telling and horoscopes which will then;
Second, cause all Christians to be repulsed by anything relating to the stars.
It has clearly worked to a large extent, thankfully many of us have seen past this lie...
This paragraph here is filled with the a-word again. The scary Zodiac word is in there too. It seems that these debunkers will do anything to tie this sign to that satanic garbage and deflect from an actual discussion of facts and relevant bible passages such as Micah 5:2-5. I wonder if he has ever read Job 9:9, Job 38:32, or Amos 5:8 and pondered if they are astrology too? As you can see, right there in the Holy Bible are names of specific, wait for it....... CONSTELLATIONS! And if you are really good you caught how in Job 38:32 God himself takes credit for bringing out those constellations. The word used is Mazzaroth which is the actual Hebrew word for the 12 main Constellations (known to us as the Zodiac). This is something the Jews were clearly familiar with as they inlaid them into their synagogs. And God is behind them according to the text. So are they really to be avoided at all costs no matter the circumstances as the author suggests? Or is it possible that our amazing God could and would use these arrangements of stars to tell a story we need to hear?
Satan can distort them to the moon and back, but right there in the oldest book of the Bible we see God himself taking credit for the constellations. So please can we stop calling anyone who mentions the them in a biblical discussion an astrologer? Update: Commenter Jonathan shared this...
"Were the wise men engaging in "astrology" when they used God's sign in the heavens to learn that Christ had been born?"It's a great point he makes, and one I have yet to hear addressed by the skeptics.
Ok, we are near the end. I am doing pretty good, it is only 1:24 am. His closing argument is this.... It's hard to see the sign, basically because of Walmart. Now I am not a big fan of Walmart either, but we have shopped there a lot lately due to a certain bathroom situation at the store down the street. Walmart has not been great for small town America, but to blame them for this is too much my dear brother! Too much I say! (sorry its getting late). FYI, I have a Walmart about 2 miles away, a city street light in my yard and neighbors all around and yet I can walk 2 steps out my front door and see Leo and Virgo, with Jupiter shining as bright as a royal king right above my house. Yes, light pollution is a problem, but don't tell me these things are impossible to see. And of course we have trusty ol' Stellarium, a software program with a precedent of being used to make amazing biblical discoveries!
Additionally, what should be making him scratch his head is the fact is that God has placed this AMAZINGLY PRECISE sign above ours heads for all to see yet so few of Gods people are paying attention! Mr Robb, oh how I wish you and all your like-minded colleagues could look for a moment with an open mind and recognize what seems to be clear to so many of us. But instead of studying it you guys are writing poorly researched articles against this Great Sign that will be shared countless times to your unsuspecting followers, who probably won't bother to study it for themselves like they should (Acts 17:11).
That there is what makes me scratch my head friends. He says we will know.... in love all I can say is that maybe if the experts and debunkers actually looked past their presuppositions and stopped calling anything above the horizon line astrology, they would know. There are so many of us who recognize it and many of us are willing to defend what we see as a likely fulfillment of Gods awesome and inerrant word.
What will happen surrounding this sign is up for debate... and I believe will find out when we get there. But to me this alignment speaks for itself (Psalm 19:1-4) and in my opinion it is speaking loud and clear to those with ears to hear!
With that I am going to bed... Can somebody please send this to the author for me? : )
Dear Brad, I can very well understand your anger and sheer despair about such a massive ignorance and mockery. But aren't we living in the VERY last days (i.e. app. 97 left according to countdown?!) ? So what do we expect from others if we as Jesus' disciples are not greater than the master (Matth 10,24) and when He talks about remaining faith on earth at His return in Luke 18,8 b)?
ReplyDeleteIf your night was short, I hope it helped draw you nearer to the LORD and not too much on earthly things (Colossians 3,1-2!)...
To give you some comfort on how to treat those who are not with us nor possibly will ever be, let them be anathema (1 Cor 16,22) and be judged by God (1 Cor 5,13) and feed the sheep instead of the swine now. Time is short! Too short than to argue with worldlings...
Please note the very final commandment of God (!) for endtimes Christian behaviour in Revelation 22,11 (which also corresponds to Daniel 12,10 as final prophetic word on understanding scripture in endtimes); regarding this, I do send much love and hugs from Germany ;-) MARANATHA
Thanks Annabel, I suppose it would have been wise to just let it go, but I still hold out hope that some of this bigger names will come around... I was in a rush while typing and thus I am sure my tone was poor. Thanks for the encouragement however!
DeleteAfter reading through some of the comments, please consider the very serious words from MATTHEW 24,48-51 to ALL of those who try to hide or mock away the undeniable truth of the second coming of Jesus Christ within the church (= his servants). In fact, THEY WILL END UP IN HELL. (verse 51!)
DeleteHow utterly disappointing. Omegaletter - you too? All these people who I thought were the good guys are showing their true colors. I guess God is bringing the hidden things to light before He returns.
ReplyDeleteThese people have to know what they're doing. They can't possibly be this ignorant. Were the wise men engaging in "astrology" when they used God's sign in the heavens to learn that Christ had been born? Was God engaging in astrology in Job 38 when He proudly proclaimed that the mazzaroth were His, or in Genesis 1 when He said He created the stars for signs?
Make no mistake: Omegaletter is now on record saying those who believe in this sign deserve to die. That is where the prophecy teachers are going. Can you imagine how ashamed they are going to be when the Lord returns? (I John 2:28). I guess we have found our scoffers in the last days. These people will have it on their record for the rest of eternity that in the last days, they not only tried to tell people to ignore the sign but said that those who didn't ignore the sign were committing a sin worthy of death. They won't be able to go back and undo that.
How sad. Mt 19:30: "But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first."
Thanks for putting this site together - it has been a big encouragement. It won't be long now.
Thanks Jonathan, many of feel your frustration. Gary from Unsealed.org sent a great point over yesterday evening when this first came out: He pointed out that false signs in the past were trumpeted to the masses, but for some reason the enemy is doing everything he can to bury and silence this sign. I thought that was a great point.
DeleteBrad,
DeleteThat was one of the first things about this that got my attention. The Rev 12 sign is simple, easy to defend, easy to explain, and easy to understand. The arguments against it are very poor - and yet it is being widely ignored and mocked. The fact that there aren't a dozen books out there and mobs of people trying to use this to make money tells me something serious is going on. There is a really unsettling lack of hysteria and promotion.
Let's be serious here: it looks like a sign that symbolizes the Rapture is going to take place on Sept 23. The most logical thing to do is to watch, as Jesus commanded, and make the most of this summer and serve the Lord with all our might, because this might be the last summer we ever have in this world. If nothing happens then we've lost nothing (because we haven't quit our jobs and sold our homes); if the Lord does come then we have no regrets.
In my opinion telling people "nothing to see here; go back to sleep; if you believe this you are in serious sin" is the worst possible response you could have. If the Lord does return then you have spent your final few days in this world encouraging people to do nothing. How can anyone defend that when they stand before the judgment seat of Christ?
Amazing points. The fact is simple: it sure looks like this is a major biblical (not manmade) sign coming up and that deserves our attention and study, dare I say, appropriate boldness. If it has been laid on our hearts from above to study this how are we to ignore such a thing? Worse yet, how can you tell others to ignore such a thing when the implications are so huge?
DeleteJonathan, one more thing as I read your comment again... You said....
Delete"Were the wise men engaging in "astrology" when they used God's sign in the heavens to learn that Christ had been born?"
This is an exact point I wanted to make last night but it slipped my mind when many other passages flooded my mine. I will add it above in the article. Thank you!
Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain. Yes, and if I am being poured out as a drink offering on the sacrifice and service of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all. For the same reason you also be glad and rejoice with me.
ReplyDeletePhilippians 2:1-18 NKJV
I appreciate you sharing this Frank. I know you would have suggested not to worry about things like this.... I guess I am like Peter in that regard.
DeleteAnyway, in reference to the Philippians verses it is "for the interests of others" that things like this bother me. I can only imagine how many souls could be woken up from their slumber if this information was treated fairly by the ministries with large platforms. Appreciate you sharing that though, I would have been better of just sleeping on it for sure! : )
narrow is the gate, few there be that find it...we remain grateful for all the research and diligence you are doing.
ReplyDeletethank you. I have am wondering if it is worth trying to debunk these articles, or if its best to just let it go... Thoughts?
DeleteI'm grateful that people are responding to the specific claims of these articles. It makes the case for Rev 12 stronger and it shows that we are taking the criticism seriously and are able to refute to the claims of the critics. Ignoring them would make it look like they are right and we have no response to offer.
DeleteI just wish the critics wouldn't ignore the facts and call it astrology and accuse us all of serious sin. If they had a real argument they would use it, but they clearly don't.
Keep debunking them. One thing that really caught my attention when I first started studying this sign, about a month ago, is that everyone like you, and Unsealed and Scott Clarke have a very humble attitude. Those who are scoffing come across with obvious arrogance. You're doing a great job getting the information out there and the Holy Spirit is working to reveal it to individuals through you. Thank you!.
DeleteDebunk you may unplant a seed that has been burried by this article and replace it with a seed of your own.
DeleteThis great wonder in the heavens cannot be ignored, It is a God given sign defend it.
DeleteThanks guys for the encouragement and direction.... I agree with this information is too critical to let attacks go on without response. The KEY, the absolute KEY, (and Rhonda touched on this), is that our responses should be so supernaturally loving that the skeptics cannot help but take notice. That was my original goal when I sat down, but my tired flesh gave in responded in a way that was not as loving as I had wished and reflected more of the other authors tone than Christ's. Perhaps my strong words were what God wanted in this situation, but in the future I will try my best to let the words be saturated in love for these brothers and sisters who are currently blind to this sign. This sign is so rock solid it basically defends itself(aside for determining its actual implications and the associated timing)... So just getting them to look at it with an open heart is the key, and harsh words only cause people to be defensive and lock into their view even more.
DeleteAll of you are so very precious in your responses to Brad's post. His and your love and humility make it obvious that the spirit of our LORD is working in and through you. I am so thankful and pleased to have found this blog and the rest of you through Daniel Matson's Facebook page. Be encouraged and never stop doing whatever you can to bring honor to His great name. You will be richly rewarded.
DeleteDanny
Thanks Danny. Your comment was very rewarding to read. Sorry it took me so long to respond as we were out of town this weekend and I couldn't read everythign as soon as I would have liked.
DeleteWhen I came across this sign, I asked the Lord if it were in fact the sign He revealed in Revelation 12. He confirmed it to be so, unmistakably, many times over the course of several days. These were such in your face confirmations that I cannot deny them. I think so many of us have heard from the pulpit that date setting is wrong, that we cannot possibly know the day or hour, and we just accept it without really searching scripture for ourselves or even bothering to ask the Lord directly for the truth. (Rev. 3:3 was an eye opener for me) We will pray for our brothers and sisters who oppose us, that they come to know the truth, that God have mercy on them and not hold this against them. And we will love them no matter what. After all, some of us were right there with them at one time...
ReplyDeleteFather have mercy and help us all be ready when You come!
Thanks for this wonderful website, Brad. I check it daily and appreciate all the work you do to keep us informed.
Blessings,
Kay
Kay, thank you for your prayer. I should have prayed from him in my post.... Thank you for doing that and thank you for your kind words.
DeleteBrad, if I had written this, my tone would have been even more harsh. I think it is okay for us watchers to express frustration, and I appreciate seeing that others are bothered as I was when reading that article. It should make us angry when we see someone claiming to be a brother in Christ speak so dismissively and condescendingly towards his fellow believers. This sign is a big deal because it very well may be a herald of our blessed hope! Even if he thinks that what happens in September is not a fulfillment of Revelation 12, you would think that he would at least express some understanding as to why faithful Christians might get excited about the real prospect of finally meeting our savior in our glorified bodies. Our brothers in Christ ought to be rebuked when they lash out like this so unjustifiably.
ReplyDeleteI appreciated this article and I appreciate this website. Keep it up!
Thanks Bruce. My tone was not as loving and gentle as it should be. I am sure this man has brought man to the Lord over the years with his writings and ministry. My frustration was more at his arguments rather than at him. Please forgive me if my words didn't come out that way.
DeleteJust to clarify my comment, I thought your tone was fine and that Robb was the one with a tone problem, but let each of us examine our own hearts.
DeleteThanks Bruce, I agree with you, and I too appreciate knowing that others are frustrated by these things as well. Glad I am not alone. I would love it if we had their knowledge and experience involved in a legit study of the facts, even if they ultimately proved we are wrong. I would be fine with that as I just want the truth and do not want to stand before God spreading false information to his beloved children.... but they aren't doing that so we must press on with what we have. God can use us nobody's anyway just as he has done in the past....
DeleteIf you input Nibiru and use the Babylonian/Arabic imagery ( which is what the Mazzaroth came to us in ) and stop using the corrupted Greek imagery ( which every one is using ) you have a much more powerful presentation. In the Babylonian imagery the woman has her veil pulled back and is ready to receive her wedding crown much like the custom of the day. However she also is pulling up her dress in such a way as to prepare to give birth while standing which is the way they still do it over there. She is preparing to bring forth her children as demonstrated in the wedding party.
ReplyDeleteI will make some graphics with those images too, thanks for the suggestion!
DeleteThank you Brad for your response to Robb. There are many verses in the Bible commanding us to watch or to be watching. Makes one cringe when teachers and others are dissing the Revelation 12 sign, sure would hate to see anyone loose a heavenly reward over this one. ~Tryphosa
DeleteJesus' words ~ "And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"
It is a clear command isn't it? Sad most teachers spend their days watching the things of this world for his coming, when right above there heads is this Great Sign. Oh Lord, if this is true give them eyes to see and the courage to speak!
DeleteI appreciate your thoughtful rebuttal, Brad. I agree with many who have already commented that it is important to respond to these arguments...however poor and careless they may be. This only serves to strengthen our understanding and confirmation of the validity of God's revelation.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I was mainly irritated by the fact that Daniel Matson's site was quoted at length, and most of us know that he has been at this a while and put a lot of hard work into his research. The way that he cut and pasted was wrong and portrayed Dan in bad light (that is slander)!
Peace, brother. Let's keep looking up.
Good point. Daniel is easy to get ahold of on Facebook for anyone who goes to his page. Too bad this article didn't reach out to him personally for a true discussion. They don't want a true discussion though it seems.
DeleteLove your site and perspective, thank you. In wrestling with the Spirit over this dynamic He has whispered to me, "The Lord has ordained that it be so..." To all us watchers of 9/23/17 I say be thankful that the Lord chose YOU to see this and be gracious to those whose eyes He has not chosen to open to this Revelation. Salvation cannot be forced upon someone through logic, argument and debate and no other spiritual Truth can be delivered that way, either. Though an elephant be the largest thing in the room, the blind man will never see him. Apply this verse to the Spirit "of Revelation" for insight to this dynamic (...and CANNOT understand them...): --- The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. (1 Cor 2:14)
ReplyDeleteBeautiful. Just a beautiful word all around. Thank you so much. This comment has truly blessed me. I wish I had been more gracious in my comments, yet I will trust that I am following His will, despite my many flaws. Thanks for sharing, we all good learn a great deal from these insights.
DeleteYes, beautiful is how I would describe "Unknown's" comment also! All of this, puts the Rev12 sign into perspective.....I'm blessed by the rebuttal. I needed to be reminded of the facts and your word for word (and underlining) the truth vs misinformation was undeniably helpful. Thank you for taking the time when most of us would have been sleeping.
DeleteThe thing that hit me first and foremost was the difference in the hearts of you and Robb. Robb was condescending and flippant, and in no way showed the love of Christ to fellow believers. Yet here you were last night, Brad, taking the time to pray before you wrote, wanting for your words to be words that Jesus would write. That was so powerful to me! Never once did I feel God in Robb's words, only pride; in your words I felt the humbleness of a believer that only wants to do the will of God. That right there shows you the difference between the believers in this Amazing Sign and the scoffers. Things are getting ugly as the naysayers lash out with a vengeance. I've witnessed it first hand and lost friends over it. What we are seeing is a spiritual battle right in front of our eyes. Keep up the faith! Not much longer now!
ReplyDeleteThank you.... My prayer was sure sincere, however I am not sure if my words quite lived up to my loving intentions as graciously as you suggest! Thank you though for the kind words. I found the same exact dichotomy when studying Pre-Trib vs Post-Trib... the loving nature of the adherents of the former was a major indicator of me of the truth. With that said, let us all put on our Spiritual Armor Eph 6:10-18 each day as it will only get worse from here on out. Make not mistake about it, this world is a spiritual war zone....I just wish we all could fight the enemy together rather than dealing with each other. In the end, I His mighty plan will play out just as He has ordained... amazing to think that we all play a part in it.
DeleteBrad,
ReplyDeleteGod bless you for going to all the trouble to open and maintain this site. I get it that some people don't get it. Of all the callings in the Body of Christ, there is bound to be assumptions of knowledge like Mr. Robb displayed (I've been guilty of that myself). But I am reminded that those of us called by His Holy Spirit to the office/task of Prophet, have a job, that for the most part is misunderstood ....mainly from lack of proper teaching from the elders (they can't teach what they don't know).
I'm reminded of a part from Frank Peretti's book "PROPHET" on page 397 in the paper back version:
"Up front, when you hear things and see things and God entrusts you with knowing things, you think of how privileged you are, how wonderful it is to see TRUTH parading right in front of you. And then...when you try to speak it and nobody listens....and you see people heading for a cliff and you just can't turn them back...."
I think that all the stuff you and Scottie and Daniel Matson (who's been doing this since 2005-2006) and all the others, going to all the effort to put out all of this incredible information for all to see, WITHOUT ANY COMPENSATION, except for the knowledge that you are doing GOD'S WORK and your reward will be great at the Bema Seat! I'm hoping that the Rapture is soon, very soon. We know we are getting very close, even if it does not happen this September. Jesus told us to "...occupy till I come"
Your Bro in Christ,
Gary Hysell
Gary, thank you so much for these wise words. The quote you shared from Peretti's book is spot on. There is something mysterious going on here, and I am slowly learning we must trust the Lord with his plan of getting the message out. Patience is hard though especially considering that the information about this sign is so critically important... so much so that if it was seen by the church as a whole in the same light we do, the very next Sunday each church would be justified in preaching on it. We know that won't be the case though, like many before us we are voices in the wilderness, hoping that even one who passes by will hear and be saved. Perhaps some birth pains in the coming months will begin to wake people up and make them more receptive. Thanks again for your kind thoughts, I am sorry it took so long to reply as we were traveling today.
DeleteIn love we can correct people, here is the list of verses https://www.openbible.info/topics/correcting_a_brother
ReplyDeleteThanks you. Yes, love is the key word which often gets lost in "correction" on both sides.
DeleteHere is a clickable link for the one you shared:
www.openbible.info/topics/correcting_a_brother
I guess we can add "Intellectual Laziness, and Stiff Necked Evangelists" to Ephesians 6:12
ReplyDeleteI don't want to add or take away anything from the Word... I would just be happy if we could have an honest discussion about what we have found. : ) thanks for reading.
DeleteAnd now it makes sense. J L Robb is still peddling his own views on how the end will come. See my video here: https://youtu.be/9lLMnEvAcVQ and here: https://youtu.be/VYXoQRnDzrQ
ReplyDeleteYes, I saw Mr Robb has books for sale as well... Once you write a book most people are locked in to that view. That's why I love Chuck Missler so much, he seeks the truth no matter what, even to the point where he tells others to stop buying one of his books because if it contains outdated or wrong information.
DeleteI was so disappointed to see this at OL I almost cried, but fortunately he's just one of their otherwise excellent contributors. (Wendy Wipple is still my girl.)
DeleteI threw a couple of logs on the fire in the comment section of Mr. Robb's hit piece, and ended up getting pushed around a bit as being "mean-spirited" by his loyal fans. OK, maybe I had it coming, because Robb's rubbish had me locked and loaded. My bad. I finally opted to politely bow out, but not before saying what I felt needed to be said--even if it left a few pairs of Fruit of the Looms in a lump.
It grieves me to see how many mainstream types in the Church are unwilling to take 30 minutes to learn what the REV12 sign is all about, but will make a virtual cottage industry out of trashing it and excoriating those who are simply being obedient to the Holy Spirit by studying it and doing their best to inform and edify the body of Christ with what God is revealing.
One of my main problems that I cannot seem to win on is the "cannot know the day or hour" this is such a hang up with the old timers, the young people don't dwell on this statement much. I pray that there is something catastrophic that wakes everyone up that is obvious to the body before rapture happens.
ReplyDeleteWe all feel your pain on this one. Those words are so engrained in the minds of believers, it's almost like a automatic response whenever something specific like this is tied to a discussion about the rapture or even the end times in general.... People don't dig deeper... its a major roadblock. Plus the doctrine of imminence is so accepted and promoted by the major prophecy guys, anything that comes against it is basically met with claims of heresy.
DeleteTo me there are several responses that are valid, I will put them in a rough order of weakest to strongest (although I do believe all are valid).
1. It says "Day nor Hour", not "Month nor Year". We can know he season....just not timing.
2. That statement was given during the old covenant, prior to the gift of Revelation. Under the new covenant this knowledge will be revealed.
3. If we can't know the timing why did Paul say "at the last trump"?
4. If we can't know timing, why then does Rev 3:3 say we can?
5. Day nor hour is specific Jewish idiom for the Feast of Trumpets, which ties in the rapture verses of 1 Thes 4:13 and 1 Cor 15:52. The last trump is the 100th blast, a long, loud, special oneYou can then explain further if you they want to know about the sitting of the moon and how nobody knew when the party would start...etc.
6. There are 7 Feasts of the Lord. Jesus fulfilled the 3 Spring Feasts at his 1st coming. Pentecost was fulfilled in Acts which started the Church. There are only the 3 Fall feasts left. The first 4 were fulfilled in order, these will likely be fulfilled in order too. Trumpets is next...that's why there is all this talk about trumpets in these verses, along with the day nor hour phrase (explained in point 4).
7. This last one isn't really a point I would share in a discussion, but more for your own heart.... Would you rather:
a) follow what you believe is God's will for you regarding sharing this sign and be potentially called a fool if nothing happens, or
b) be disobedient what you believe is God's will for you, hide your knowledge of the Rev12 Sign under a lampstand, and thus be ashamed before God at his throne if something does?
I for one believe God has given us more than enough info to move forward warning others that The Day could be at hand and thus am deeply compelled to choose "option a" every time, no matter the risk of mocking. The stakes are simply to high to sit back and do nothing.
PS. I think I may post this question and my comment as a new article if you don't mind....
No problem, that was over the top! Thank you.
DeleteLet's repeat: What Will Happen on September 23, 2017? Answer: Probably nothing unusual.
ReplyDeleteAs far as one's presuppositions getting in the way, well does the false pre-trib doctrine count?
We love you. We love you because Christ first loved us and sacrificed himself for us so that we could, by the grace of God, be made pure and holy and spotless before him. Thank you for reading, I sincerely appreciate you reading this page even if you do not agree. : ) Don't argue with me about the date, God set the date. We just discovered it. In time we will find out what it means, but for now it is best to be fully aware of the implications and be ready. He could come before the date, after the date, or on the date....but surely the date means something or else He wouldn't have placed this sign there to mark it. Keep reading and keep looking up!
DeleteIf I may, heed the warning from Matthew 24:48 (KJV) 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
DeleteIn love only.
DeleteThis disappoint's me. If you know about your bible and Revelations you should know that everything was figuratively written. She doesn't exactly have twelve stars as her crown. Those stars actually mean the tribes of Israel. She is symbolic for Israel. She has nothing to do with the ending times and nowhere in Revelations twelve if you read does it say that " when you see her Great tribulations will begin " It NEVER STATED that it would be a sign of the times
ReplyDeleteand if it was it would've been placed in Matthews 24. you're not suppose to see her. She's just representing Israel and Jesus Christ. Yes it could be a sign but relating the stars virgo , and Leo to the bible or anything in the bible is sin. The woman name is not Virgo. Whoever came up with that told a lie. Not one soul on this earth can sit here and say that the world will begin to end September 23 , 2017. Does the bible say that ? No. Instead it says that No one knows the hour nor day of when Jesus shall return. That's all you need to know. Anything you see about the world ending on a specific date is false and you should be ashamed that you actually start to believe it
Thank you for your comment. I sincerely thank you for reading. The danger with spiritualizing all of the symbols in the Revelation is they can eventually be morphed to mean whatever you want them to mean. Rev 12:1 says a GREAT Sign....God doesn't waste words....Great means Great... Sign means Sign.... In the heavens...right were Gen 1:14 says they will be... the same place they were in the past as the Magi discovered (Matt 2:2). So my question is to you is this.... The Magi traveled across the desert for months to give honor to a King they never knew... But are you willing to travel to this link Revelation 12 Sign Basics and explore it for 30 minutes. Are you willing to look up at the stars the Bible mentions repeatedly, even if there are constellations up there.... Constellations that.....hope you are sitting down for this....were placed there by God Himself? Job 9:9, Job 38:31-32, Amos 5:8.
DeleteThere is order up there...placed by God. Will you look up... or are you like the rest of the world too busy looking down at your phone and watching tv? Be blessed...
https://rev12daily.blogspot.com/2017/06/his-fixed-order-of-sun-moon-and-stars.html
very nice article Famous astrologer in bangalore
ReplyDeleteYes, it is astrology. Astronomy is the scientific study of the heavenlies. This isn't scientific....you are claiming that God is actually TELLING us something via the arrangement of the stars and planets. That is FALSE. God does not do that. God used His prophets in the old testament, and now He speaks to us via His Son (Heb 1:1-2). The Bible does not tell us to look at star patterns to figure out what God is "saying." That leads to massive confusion because anyone can claim anything.
ReplyDeleteAstrology looks for meaning in life via star patterns. That's what this is. You are looking for meaning. That isn't Christian.
Repeating yourself over and over that it isn't astrology doesn't change a thing. You are mixing evil with good.