Response to Dr Michael Heiser and Rev12

From all accounts Dr Michael Heiser is a brilliant author.  I am in no position to debate him on 99% of the Bible.  In fact, I love him as a brother in Christ and sincerely wish I didn't even have to write this post.  But for whatever reason God has placed me in this position, so I feel that it is my duty and calling to point out inaccurate information that is being fed to the flock regarding the importance of the upcoming Revelation 12 Sign.

Please know that I take no pleasure in doing this as part of me feels like this post will further divide an already divided community of believers.  But just as my hand takes no pleasure in removing a splinter from my foot, I must write this post in order to help prevent it from spreading unchecked to other parts of "The Body".  I would be more than happy to organize an extended sit down, phone call, or Q/A with any of these prominent skeptics so that we can show them the evidence and have them tell us point by point why we are wrong.  But instead of a deep discussion, we get condescension and superficial attacks.

Ok, lets get started with this.  First off, I would suggest you go to Dr Heiser's page and read his post for yourself as it is fairly short: http://drmsh.com/a-note-on-the-september-23-2017-astral-prophecy-hype-and-nonsense/

Here is how it starts....

In the above paragraph Heiser reiterates that long ago he rejected this phony idea that Revelation 12 has anything to do with the End Times.  So first off, I am wary when anyone says he made up his mind long ago about something prophecy related and nothing is going to change it. Second, you mean to tell me that the twelfth chapter in the Book of Revelation has nothing to do with the Second Coming of Christ or the End Times?  Surely that doesn't mean what I think it means, does it?  If that is true, well then what exactly is it doing smack dab in the Book of Revelation?  Granted I am just some nobody with a website trying to read the text for what it plainly says; But when Rev 1:1 and Rev 1:19 say that the things written are "soon to come" and "will take place after these", why then is it so hard to believe that this is a future (perhaps very near future) event?  In all love, that statement boggles my mind...  I would like to try to understand it but all we get is the same tired old rebuttal that this is just another one of those crazy dates again.

Moving on...
Ok, here are his reasons. He basically says that there aren't any verses that tell us to LOOK for signs or that signs will even be involved in any way related to these end times events.  Here is my response to that:

  1. What about how Rev 3:3 that tells us to "wake up" so that we won't be surprised when He comes?"
  2. What about 1 Thes 5:4-6 which tells us to be "awake" so we are not surprised when this time comes."
  3. Why does Hebrews 10:25 imply we will SEE the day approaching?
  4. What about Luke 21:25 that specifically says that there will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars?
And why are we limited to the NT?  Why is the clear statement about signs in Gen 1:14 or the direct reference to this specific sign in Micah 5:3 off limits?  Why should we ignore Isaiah 40:26 which tells us to lift up our EYES and admire these things which God has made?

He even says that "The Sign of the Son of Man" in Matt 24:29-30 may not be specific, and certainly not astronomical in any way.  But why then does it talk about the sun, the moon and the stars specifically?  Those are astronomical terms, surely there is a scriptural basis to think that they will be involved in some way?  (FYI, Many of us including Daniel Matson, Jeff and Gary from Unsealed, and myself don't see Matt 24:30 directly related to the events of Rev 12:1-2, the point is Dr Heiser says he doesn't even think that verse has anything to do with the actual Sun, Moon and Stars!)

Next paragraph...


Notice how far along we have gotten in his post without him even discussing the actual evidence.  All we are supposed to do is trust that he knows what he is talking about despite the fact he hasn't even adequately researched this specific subject.  That's not wise on his part (Proverbs 18:13) no matter how brilliant you are on other subjects.  The fact of the matter is this: Rev 12:1-2 tells us about a 'Great Sign' relating to a woman in labor appearing in the sky (heaven), right were Gen 1:14 tells us signs will be.

Furthermore, in the OT there are so many references to a woman in labor which are directly related to the end times.  Isaiah 26:17-21 is heaped full of rapture imagery and specifically references when the Lord will "come out to punish the inhabitants of the earth".  Jeremiah 30:6-7 directly relates a pregnant woman in travail to the time of "Jacobs Trouble".  Micah 5:3 states that a woman in labor will be the key indicator that the current dispensation will end.  There are many other verses that I know Dr Heiser would discover for himself if he actually took the time to dig into this rather than flatly dismiss it all as "nonsense".

Surely this is worth watching closely and discussing brothers and sisters?  Surely the fact that technology was used to discover it doesn't somehow invalidate the sign as he implies?  Does that fact he uses a keyboard to communicate somehow invalidate his words?  And since he referenced John 14:1 when telling us to not let our hearts be troubled, I would suggest he reads the very next verses (John 14:2-3) in which Jesus himself tells us the actual REASON not to be troubled.  It's because HE IS COMING to take us to the PLACE he has prepared for us!

Ok, lets wrap this up, here is his last section:
I am sure Dr. Heiser is a brilliant man.  I am sure he writes brilliant books.  But this is not some of his best work.  All writing and teaching regarding the Bible should be well researched and thought out... not flatly dismissed as nonsense without a proper review, especially something as complex and relevant as the Rev12 Sign. Additionally, 2 Peter 3:11-14 tells all of us to eagerly desire the coming day of God, not eagerly desire October so we can further mock other Christians.  The date setting argument is not fair as the VAST MAJORITY of reasonable people are not dogmatic about the rapture taking place on the exact date of the sign.  We are just saying that THERE IS A SIGN on an exact date.  The sign and the rapture do not have to be at the same time, it just seems to be a logical possibility because its a very rare sign and it appears on a very significant day.  It could be a warning, or perhaps the birth / rapture could even take place before the date of the sign as some think Isaiah 66:7 suggests.  Either way the claim of date setting is false.  As a commenter said: "Nobody set a date, we just discovered it."  It was God that made the sign so precise....bring it up with Him if you don't like how exact it is.

So if in fact this is a legit sign from God, which based on the actual evidence there is very little reason to think its not, then all of these people who are aware of the sign yet actively tell others to ignore it should read the following verse from Ezekiel:
But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, so that the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, that person is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at the watchman’s hand.
That warning right there is a big reason why many of us go through the trouble to tell others about these things. 

In closing I would like to address the idea that this "nonsense" will destroy the faith of many.  That is a serious claim and none of us want to see that.  None of us.  Especially those of us who tell others about it and think this is real.  First off, we must know that nobody's TRUE faith can be destroyed by anything (John 10:28-30).  Secondly, if we present this sign in a balanced way, simply pointing out the sign and ultimately pointing people to their need for Christ and His soon coming, then there is little risk and great reward.  At worst the end result in October (assuming we get there) should be a much larger group of true believers in Jesus who are now awake to the lateness of the hour.  Yes, they may be slightly confused or disappointed, but ultimately I think most would tell you they are much closer to God due to the journey. 

I personally think its OK if our hopes are riding high due to all that this sign could mean. At the same time please remember that our faith and hopes are not in a sign, but in Jesus Christ himself, who is the God of Hope (Romans 15:13).  Studying this sign and hoping for that great day should not be faith destroying, but faith purifying, just as 1 John 3:2-3 says:
Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
If nothing big happens this Fall, please do not lose hope.  Do not let your faith be shaken. While we humans are prone to mistakes, the Bible is true and there are many other factors showing us that Jesus is coming soon.  Maybe there will come a day when we are are proven wrong about the Rev12 Sign (either by a solid biblical argument or time itself), but until then I personally believe it is OK, even biblical, to hope abundantly for the coming of the Lord, which this sign seems to point to.

So with that in mind you can choose to either listen to the big names and their flimsy arguments or choose to walk forward along side so many of us who have an abundant hope... not fearing man but believing this sign is from our amazing God who has promised us in Romans 5:5 that our hopes will not put us to shame!

Comments

  1. "...be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” (2 Pet)

    Thank you for your faithfulness. Be of good courage! These debunkers are frustrating but they too are part of end-times prophecy. :) I really appreciate your work! Be blessed.

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    1. Thank you Hillary. I think you are right... as God knew this would happen! I am all for finding the truth if we are wrong, but the fact that their arguments are so weak makes my confidence in our interpretation grow!

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    2. I learned many years ago from a wise and spiritual man these words.

      I prefer to believe in God, die and find out there is no God,
      Than to not believe in God and find out there is one.

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    3. Two little children Mike and Brad are on a school bus. The brothers are looking forward to go to a surprise party. Brad is excited that they could be arriving very soon. Mike is not excited and tells Brad to be quiet. Eventually they arrive at the party. Brad runs into the open arms of his papa. Mike complains that Brad kept asking "are we there yet?" To be continued...

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    4. Hahaha! You left out the part of about Little Brad annoying all the other kids and thus got spitballed the whole trip. Luckily a few compassionate souls came and sat next to him.... of course they got spitballed too! : )

      Based on the school bus analogy, I am assuming you have read this. But if not you will surely enjoy this link. Check out the similar analogy called "A Trip to Disneyland" which is in blue type 3/4's of the way down:
      http://www.alittlestrength.com/articles/2017/1705-exit-sign.htm

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    5. No i have not read it. I will. Thanks Brad for giving as freely as you have recieved. Like you, we are excited little children. But there will always be others kids on the bus. We know in part and we search eagerly in part. Jesus loves the little children. See you someday bro.

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  2. Dear Brad, I can understand your pain. I don't know Dr. Heiser at all so I did first check out who this person is as I usually do if I dont know somebody who claims to be a brother of mine in Christ. So I first of all look for some CV information, then I check out someones doctrine if it's truly biblical and especially I search for evidence to some conversion testimony. Or I do listen to some video to get his personality and voice. So I check if this person is really saved and has experienced the baptism in the Spirit. That does not always work on the internet but I get some first impression by this at least how trustworthy someone is according to scripture.

    You think Dr Heiser is a new born Christian and true brother, sealed by the Holy Spirit? Well, this is what I found out:

    http://drmsh.com/thoughts-testament-salvation-language/

    There's hardly something more of an academic 'Nicodemus' writing about this topic that I got to read here. I mean, if someone is really saved and born in the Spirit you would assume that he KNOWS in his heart what he talks about and is able to express this, right? So with regards to this text, this man DOESN'T know Jesus at all nor what salvation is. He's just describing some doctrine from outside as if learned from a schoolbook but he doesn't know Jesus. He's not only a debunker but just a poor scholar and scribe.

    And that's exactly what his bio tells about him too: Ph.D. and MD, theology, history, Israel expert and all that stuff but never anything about a vivid and personal relationship to the LORD Jesus. Proves what I recently posted here about "unsaved mockers" (Matthew 27): He who mocks Rev12-sign slanders God Himself and thus is not saved, no brother of mine. Bingo. ;-)

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    1. PS: Division is good and useful as long as it separates the sheep from the goats. Good job, Brad = 1 Corinthians 11,19! :D

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    2. Annabel, Nice! :)

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    3. I don't know about him much, just that a pastor friend of mine really liked him and that his latest book about the unseen realm was really good and eye opening. I did not check into all of his beliefs, but I do know he is well known and well respected by many people.

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    4. Brad, do you know "The Shinar Directive" by MICHAEL LAKE? It deals with the unseen realm, fallen angels and even conspiracy theory etc from a truly biblical perspective. I watched some PW announcement (that was *before* the Billy Crone interview LOL) and read this some time ago, Lake is a REAL brother you will know him by reading, a huge difference. Not this prideful academic stuff like 'I know better than you because the LORD revealed it to me only and I leave some breadcrumbs of my wisdom to you now' as I read from this extremely haughty and ignorant attitude of some Dr Heislers ... Much blessings, have an awesome day!

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    5. I haven't heard of that... may need to check it out. Thanks!

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  3. I truly appreciate Dr. Heiser's books, having read three of them. I have been, and will continue to follow his You Tube channels, and web sites. However, his dismissal of the Revelation 12 sign without any consideration of the evidence was a shock to me. I would have never expected a non-thought out "knee jerk" reaction from him. Thank you, for your WELL thought out response. It is like
    a velvet covered brick.

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    1. I like that Mike! Appreciate hearing from someone who has read his work.... You never know, he may come around... God is amazing like that. Thanks again for your encouragement.

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    2. I agree with you Uncle Mike, I have read several of his books as well. Very enlightening and even been to conferences where I heard him speak and I truly believe in my heart of hearts he is a Christian. I heard Pastor Billy Crone do the same thing and have many tapes and have followed his teachings for several years. I was disappointed but this is what I came up with, I am married to a 74 yr fantastic Pastor who tells me the same thing as these men " no one knows the day or hour" it's almost like a brain washing. Personally I can't get my husband to even listen to or read the info Brad and Scottie and others write down for us to research. He is stuck on no man knows the day or hour. I also believe for some it may be a little bit of pride. They have preached it for years. And are sure they are right. Thank you so much Brad for continuing to listen to our Blessed Redeemer and share with us in our remote areas. It gives us encouragement to know we are not alone. I fight the battle daily to not push my passion for prophecy on my family. Please keep on keeping on Brad....Ginny

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    3. Susie! You are wonderful! I totally am in the same boat. I too have a passion for prophecy but so many believers I know just "dont wanna hear it. "Let Jesus come when He comes" and of course, always the parrotting of "No man knows the day or the hour" -- they say. ugh. frustrating. But, just be encouraged sister, Jesus has revealed it to a few for a reason and he has blinded others for a reason as well.

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    4. Dear Susie Stanislaw, I have read about the very stunning life of Robert Chapman (Plymouth Brethren) that he would never revise some theological error even if having proved wrong by scriptures. I agree there must be some rest of PRIDE that some true brethren will unfortunately only have burnt up in the fire at the bema seat (1 Cor 3,11-15). King Asa was a real saint after all, too (1 Kings 15,14). But his latter days were full of rebellion against God (2 Chronicles 16,10+12). He even put the prophet into jail that confronted him with personal sin.

      But what I don't understand is this sheer HATRED and DISDAIN in speech that some use ESPECIALLY with regards to Rev12-sign. I can only see the beating of the fellowservants of Matth24, 49 and in consequence 1 John 2,19 here. If I come across such a despising language (of anyone, be it a big name or not) like also in Heislers 2014 article on the blood moons he mentions himself http://drmsh.com/if-only-jesus-had-used-starry-night-pro/ I cannot expect more deep insight of such a person as he exposed himself to me as a scribe without Holy Spirit.

      If I learn such a thing about somebody even if I didnt recognize him before and followed his theological work I will not continue because I just cannot expect him to give me any fruitful information on any subject: he's not my brother and is blind himself. How could such a man guide or enlighten a Christian? Read the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 2 again, Paul explains the difference between the knowledge of scholars / scribes and from God. In my country, there is one 'prophecy big name' (Roger Liebi) mocking too and I have read many excellent books of him. But I cannot expect from him to give me any further insight regarding the probably MOST IMPORTANT MESSAGE OF GOD EVER that lies before us in Rev12-sign now, so I won't follow him any longer.

      Be strong, steadfast and corageous in faith, hold on these last days, we're home soon! Much love from Germany

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    5. Thank you Jazzy girl for your sweet words of encouragement. We will hang in to the next stage our
      Redeemer has in store for for us to enter into. Their are times when God will open tge door through conversations with strangers that are hungry to hear what God is preparing and I try to explain Rev.12 as I have leaned from these men of great faith like Scottie and Brad and others. Will be looking for you in our eternal home when we will be worshipping our Sweet Jesus together.....and Annabelle it has been in my life experience to trust in Gods Holy Spirit to help me discern what He wants me to take from the teachings of others. Some He will lead me totally away from such as He did with the bible answer man I used to listen to lot and Joel Osteen who sounded good at first. But I find going into studing with tge great priphecy experts of today I work hard at keeping an open mind and letting the Holy Spirit discern what He wants me to learn from each one of them. Some differ on some minor things but help in seeing some big truths that open doors for enlightenment to bigger truths. So I don't listen to the man I listen to the Holy Spirit for His truth. And I trust Him to lead me away from any heresy. If I had not listened to all of Scotties video's I would have been blinded by the nay sayers amongst us. Some of his first videos he believed in mid trib, but God kept bringing me back till I believe he has been shown one of the greatest revelations ever......thank you Annabelle for sharing for your heart with me and I hope you hear mine in love. See you in glory......

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    6. Thank you guys for the wonderful discussion guys! I loved reading these open-hearted comments by you all.... beautiful thoughts! As for our family members, there is a chance the "birth pains" could ramp up, and if they do our family members will come running to us with open ears.

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    7. I have found this blog very helpful in understanding the Rev 12 Sign.... I appreciate all the input.



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  4. Trusting in technology? Exactly what will carry the images of the two witnesses so that the WHOLE WORLD WILL SEE their demise and their rising on the third day????? That would be technology. You Tube, Google, Facebook. This is the only time in history that such a thing could happen.

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    1. His argument is silly...thanks for helping point that out John.

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  5. 1Corinthians 1:26-34
    26Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”

    "So that no one may boast before Him."

    All of this debate is happening for a reason. I suspect it will be used to humble those that need it. (The Lord is merciful that way.) Father God will work it out for good for all those who love Him. To God alone be all the glory!

    I thought you did a wonderful job writing this post Brad. You pointed out what was wrong in the love of Christ. Abundant blessings to you in Jesus! YSIC, Kay

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    1. Thank you Kay. Thanks for the Scripture passage as well...

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  6. So much great information. I'm glad I found this page.

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    1. Thanks for reading Scott, also thanks again for your help on that Micah graphic!

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  7. Another thought, please: it might be off topic here but I just noticed that a true beloved spirit filled and humble brother like BARRY SCARBROUGH disabled the commentary function of his YouTube videos (what he never did before!) because of the increase of furious hate and disdain of especially legalists and pharisees debate attacking him there. I find this generally interesting as it shows the increase of pharisee and scribes spirit hatred towards Jesus Christ and Gods gospel of grace and the necessity of spiritual division among Christianity now as the day of the LORD (as well as rapture date before that) quickly approaches. Revelation 22,11 folks! Much love ;-)

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  8. Thank you, Brad. Well said and great comments.

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    1. Thanks Dave. Appreciate having you here!

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  9. I think about the Pharisees/Saducees during Jesus' time. He fulfilled 300+ prophecies, but He was almost entirely rejected by the religious elite. I think these great teachers have been so busy teaching that they may be too close to the subject. Many of them have dedicated their lives to studying the Bible that maybe this is too easy to accept?? IDK, but I was a bit shocked that he was ready for October so he could say ".told you so". Also, thanks for pointing out that we're not saying what is going to happen....only that this may be the Rev 12 sign. If that's the case, huge implications indeed.

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  10. Nice critique, Brad. I am in agreement with those above regarding Dr. Heiser. I don't doubt his relationship with Jesus, and I have benefitted greatly from reading his books.

    Interestingly, in his newest non-fiction work "Reversing Hermon" (pgs. 55-70), he has no issue with planetary alignments and conjuctions heralding Christ's first coming. Like many preterists, idealists, or partial-preterists, he does not see chapter 12 of Revelation being future prophecy. That is one of the stumbling blocks.

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    1. Dear Jeff, well I'd say according to your own notice then this is indeed a HUGE 'stumbling block' if this Dr Heiser ignores any heralding celestial event (past, present and future) but claims to have intimate personal relationship in the Holy Spirit with the godly subject of being heralded exactly by those constellations i.e. Jesus Christ = ??? How can that be? Think about it yourself:

      1 Peter 2,6-8 = stone of stumbling / rock of offence but NOT for true believers! ;-)

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    2. I woke up this morning with this verse in my mind: Rev 1:3 " Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near."
      In years past I wondered why those ones who read and hear this prophecy were blessed and now it is becoming apparent. I don't know why I was so blessed with my heart open to this knowledge, I am so unworthy.

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  11. I understand your feeling of compulsion to speak on this topic it is a very important topic. However, it is always wise to do research before you publicly speak about a peer-reviewed academic scholar with three master's degree and a Ph.D. It is very obvious that you really are going from your feelings based on the one blog post you read. It would be wise of you, to take the time to go to his website and read extensively. As he is written on this topic spoken on this topic for years. Sighting all the necessary scripture. Being that this short blurb was intended for his audience on a particular podcast it's not going to be as extensively written as the ones that are meant to go out and received by the public. This was basically just a response to a question on a small forum of about 1500 people. Dr Heiser , has written several things on Astro prophecy. He also has some lectures available on YouTube. People constantly like to critique dr. Heiser Without doing any sourcing out of the information that they cite from . I think that if you would go to his web page the Naked Bible Podcast, and I suggest starting at podcast one. But feel free to pick any of the episodes available and access the tremendous amount of information available to anybody. Dr. Heiser has done so much to acquit the everyday person who is interested in biblical studies to study deeply. In conjunction with Logos Bible Software, you are able to read the Bible in its original language. The ability to do deep word searches and studies with the software is mind-blowing . The free lectures the free video studies , and the encouragement to seek the answers for yourself don't just take his word for it or anybody's word for it. And just be reminded that yes we are to watch and we are to look for signs but nobody not even the son of man knows the day or the time or anything about the second coming. Do you think God did not foresee September 23rd 2017? I would think that Jesus said no one knows this but watch the seasons and the times because it will come like a thief in the night. Meaning be prepared because it could happen at any time it could happen before that day if you happen after that day it could happen that day which would be really cool and I believe all Christians are ready for their King to come for them . But we should not be putting timestamps on things and then putting them out to the world because of the simple fact that no one knows anything truly for a fact for who knows the mind of God? We need to be very careful what we put out especially in our Christian communities you obviously know that because you felt this was important to address. But please taking consideration his entire body of work his 27 years worth of Education the twelve languages he could read several of which are dead near Eastern languages. He is a forerunner. If you started to read his books unseen Realm , and Reversing Hermon . Or better yet go on YouTube and search dr. heiser's name along with those titles your mind will be blown. He is a brilliant scholar most definitely and you know this. So I just asked that you would take the time to review his full length video on Astro prophecy . And if you watch the first original one you will see that he was years ahead of this date that so many are just now finding out about in fact I strongly believe that one of the biggest reasons why this is so popular right now is because of dr. heiser's very very early work on this date. Please understand the spirit that I'm coming to you in on this thank you

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    1. I sense the main objection to Dr. Heiser's critique is the tone. It is terribly condescending, but more importantly completely devoid of grace. "...Though I know all things...but lack charity..." We are known to be His by our love for one another. It is bizarre to dismiss one's brother in such a casual manner.
      Re: "no one knows the hour" - I have not seen many definitively set this in the appropriate context. Is it referencing the Rapture or the Second Coming? See Jack Kelly's response - https://gracethrufaith.com/end-times-prophecy/the-end-times-according-to-jesus-part-3/
      Further, I have not seen anyone who has worked so hard to bring this to the brethren's attention set a timestamp (as you put it). These are the festivals we are instructed to attend. The Lord has kept His side...remember the disciples were instructed to wait in Jerusalem. We will not hear the "still, soft voice" if we are inattentive.

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    2. Michael, I sincerely appreciate your gracious response to Stephanie, I agree with you words. Stephanie, you are correct in assuming I have not had the time to go back and listen to his work...what I know of him I have shared above and in this comments section. Others have commented in agreement with my assessment who have read his books and seen him speak in person. All I can do is respond to his own words as written... which I tried to do as truthfully and humbly as I could. I truly believe that if Dr Heiser had taken even 1 hour to look the breadth of this information openly I believe he would have approached his words much differently, even if he still didn't agree. But God has a plan in all of this, and surely He will use our responses to this sign as a measure for us all.... Thanks to both of you for reading and taking the time to comment. Be blessed.

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    3. Please think as well of a) Romans 2,11 (God without respect for the person = biblical principle) and b) 1 John 4,20 / Matthew 5,22 (concerning the tone among brethren). I have now checked out some video interviews with Heiser and have still not found a spirit filled brother but just some scholar who seeks the applause and admiration of his audience "ever learning new things" (Acts 17,21; 2 Timothy 3,7). God reveals Himself to the humble and poor in spirit who love Him and expect His return in anticipation. Not to the 'big names' filled with pride and wisdom to be seen of men (Luke 10,21-22; 1 Corinthians 1,26-29).

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  12. Hello friends... While I eagerly await our dear Lord Jesus's return as well, and would love nothing more for this 'sign' to be unique and therefore true to signify his return, I found this video which poked enough holes in it as to put it to rest for now. My theory: let's live each day as if it were our last and Jesus were coming. Let's always be about doing his work. https://youtu.be/xCUPBf4NI6k

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    1. Susan, thank you so much for reading and for commenting! That video by Joel Rosenberg has been expertly addressed, so before putting this sign to rest please read this link and come back and share your thoughts. Blessings!

      http://www.alittlestrength.com/articles/2017/1703-sky-dont-lie.htm

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  13. Here's what I posted at his post. The post was there, but now it's not. What's interesting is that Tom Horn was one of the people who encouraged him to write the book "Reversing Hermon". Tom is mentioned in the acknowledgements.

    FYI: Those of us who believe that the events described in the book of Revelation, chapter 12, are future, are in good company. Let's start with Tom horn, Chris Putnam, Chuck Missler, Dr. Michael Svigel, and the author of Revelation: John.

    In the book " On the Path of the Immortals" Tom Horn and Chis Putnam make the case that Satan falls three times in scripture. Two are historical, one is future. " In Revelation, Satan it's cast down as the result of Michael's army's triumph over their fallen adversaries, not the positional checkmate accomplished by the cross that "spoiled principalities and powers" (Colossians 2:15)." A large section in the book is devoted to making their case.

    Dr. Michael Svigel, Th.M., Ph.d. of Dallas Theological Seminary

    From : AN INTERVIEW WITH MICHAEL SVIGEL (Dallas Theological Seminary): PRE-TRIBULATIONAL RAPTURE

    "I argue that the symbol of the male child in Revelation 12:5 is best identified as the body of Christ, the church, and the child’s catching up to God and His throne is best identified as the catching up of the body of Christ elsewhere described in 1 Thessalonians 4:17."…….

    "In fact, the earliest advocates of a pre-tribulational rapture (John Nelson Darby, William Kelly, William Blackstone, H.A. Ironside, etc.) pointed to this passage (Rev. 12:5) as decisive exegetical evidence for a pre-seven-year rapture of the church." …...

    The Male Child is “Snatched Up.” The word in Revelation 12:5 is the word for “rapture,” harpazo, and always means a sudden removal, a snatching. In contrast, for the ascension of Christ, the New Testament uses terms such as “to be lifted up,” epairo (Acts 1:9), “to ascend,” anabaino (John 20:17; Ephesians 4:8-10) and “to take up,” analambano (Mark 16:19; Luke 1:11). These are neutral terms meaning a removal from one place to another. Revelation 12:5 has the male child being suddenly snatched away from the dragon, who wants to devour the child. The ascension of Christ was gradual (Acts 1:10), not sudden. Also, Revelation 12:5 is a context of “rescue” from the threat of the dragon. The word “rapture,” harpazo, is appropriately used in the New Testament for a rescue in Acts 23:10 and Jude 23. In His ascension to heaven, Christ was not rescued, but ascended victoriously and was no danger from the devil or anybody else. The term “rapture,” harpazo, is never used of Christ’s ascension to heaven. Thus, the use of harpazo in a rescue context like Revelation 12:5 is completely inappropriate to describe the ascension of Christ, but is completely appropriate to describe the rapture of the church as a rescue from Satan’s emerging efforts to destroy the church as we approach the end times.

    Full article: http://mydigitalseminary.com/pre-tribulational-rapture-interview-michael-svigel/

    Full article: Point counter Point: https://bible.org/article/apocalypse-john-and-rapture-church-reevaluation
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    Chuck Missler in this video makes the case that Revelation 12 may better be understood as future, similar to Michael Svigel arguments. 34 min mark
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iybidtXaWR4

    In Revelation 1:1 ... The things that must soon take place. Rev 4:1 .... come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.

    So if they are correct, and Revelation 12 is future, then logically the sign is future.

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  14. I'm waiting for Chuck Missler and Michael Svigel to comment on the sign. I'm sure they have hear of it!

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  15. This might clear up a little on Heiser's defense of his view http://drmsh.com/september-11-happy-birthday-to-jesus/

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  16. Check out Kenneth Gentry comments on Revelations. Revelations was written for the people of that time and not for us. If not all of it most of it. It sure is a lesson to us at how God will deal with unbelievers.

    ReplyDelete

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Colossians 3:2-4

Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

1 Peter 2:9

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

Philippians 3:20-21

But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.