Scott Clarke Reverses the "Day nor Hour" Argument
Before we get started ask yourself this: Was Jesus literally talking to Christians or to Jews when He was on the earth giving the Olivet Discourse (the part of Matthew which includes the famous "Day nor Hour" statement)? Additionally, was He speaking during the Old Covenant or during the New Covenant?
So much of the text in the Gospels is applicable to our daily lives...but was Matt 24:36 specifically intended for Christians? Many people say yes, others say no. Is it possible God could have intentionally worded the very first verse of Revelation in a way to let Christians in the New Covenant know that Matt 24:36 didn't apply to them? Potentially for the very reason that God knew many would mistakenly do so (thinking we could never know the time of His coming) and thus never look for His signs? Or worse yet, flat out disregard and mock one of His signs because it is too specific?
Scott Clarke certainly thinks that's possible... and I think he may have found something which needs to be talked about. Scott (who has reviewed this post) revealed this info in a recent interview, and my intention here is to shed some light on Scott's idea which may have been missed by viewers (I certainly didn't catch it the first time).
First, lets look at a characteristic of the verse in question, Matt 24:36:
1. Mankind (no one) 2. Angels 3. Son 4. Father
Lets now look at Rev 1:1, a book written to Christians during a New Dispensation.
Notice the order referenced above is in the exact opposite pattern as the other verses.
1. God (Father) 2. Jesus Christ. 3. Angel 4. Mankind (Servants / John)
So Scott's argument goes something like this...
By giving us the Book of Revelation God undid many of the circumstances that were in place during the previous dispensation / covenant. He even reversed the pattern of Mark 13:32 in Revelation 1:1 as another way help clear up any confusion for those who mistakenly believe that the Olivet Discourse statement was directed toward and applicable to this new group of people (the Church). This reversed order of wording is a way God has shown us that we can know this important information which was previously unknowable back in the Old Covenant and when Christ made the statements in Matt 24:36 and Mark 13:32. The Book of Revelation was written during a New Covenant and it seems that God has now revealed this previously unknown information to us. During the study of the Revelation 12 Sign we have discovered how He uses Signs in the Heavens revealed through the Bible to convey the message to us.
Is Scott correct? Well if you are following the Rev 12 Sign closely, you know there is lots of evidence indicating that John may have seen the actual time period of the rapture indicated in the stars and wrote it down for us to discover. He may not have known what year it was but God knew that if John simply recorded this very detailed sign in the heavens, 2000 years later mankind would be able to recognize it and put the pieces together. Perhaps God planned for it to be found years beforehand thus giving us plenty of time for study and a merciful wake-up period.
So click the video below and listen to Scott's point. This video should automatically start at the 10:15 mark but if it doesn't feel free to skip ahead. If Scott is correct this information could be a huge key to helping remove the "day nor hour" stumbling block that is so prevalent today. More information may come out in the future as it sounds like Scott is planning on doing a video on this topic at some point...
So much of the text in the Gospels is applicable to our daily lives...but was Matt 24:36 specifically intended for Christians? Many people say yes, others say no. Is it possible God could have intentionally worded the very first verse of Revelation in a way to let Christians in the New Covenant know that Matt 24:36 didn't apply to them? Potentially for the very reason that God knew many would mistakenly do so (thinking we could never know the time of His coming) and thus never look for His signs? Or worse yet, flat out disregard and mock one of His signs because it is too specific?
Scott Clarke certainly thinks that's possible... and I think he may have found something which needs to be talked about. Scott (who has reviewed this post) revealed this info in a recent interview, and my intention here is to shed some light on Scott's idea which may have been missed by viewers (I certainly didn't catch it the first time).
First, lets look at a characteristic of the verse in question, Matt 24:36:
"But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only."Here is a parallel passage from Mark 13:32:
“But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."Look at the specific order referenced in these two passages.
1. Mankind (no one) 2. Angels 3. Son 4. Father
Lets now look at Rev 1:1, a book written to Christians during a New Dispensation.
"The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John"In other words, God gave the revelation to Jesus who made it known by sending an angel to John.
Notice the order referenced above is in the exact opposite pattern as the other verses.
1. God (Father) 2. Jesus Christ. 3. Angel 4. Mankind (Servants / John)
So Scott's argument goes something like this...
By giving us the Book of Revelation God undid many of the circumstances that were in place during the previous dispensation / covenant. He even reversed the pattern of Mark 13:32 in Revelation 1:1 as another way help clear up any confusion for those who mistakenly believe that the Olivet Discourse statement was directed toward and applicable to this new group of people (the Church). This reversed order of wording is a way God has shown us that we can know this important information which was previously unknowable back in the Old Covenant and when Christ made the statements in Matt 24:36 and Mark 13:32. The Book of Revelation was written during a New Covenant and it seems that God has now revealed this previously unknown information to us. During the study of the Revelation 12 Sign we have discovered how He uses Signs in the Heavens revealed through the Bible to convey the message to us.
Is Scott correct? Well if you are following the Rev 12 Sign closely, you know there is lots of evidence indicating that John may have seen the actual time period of the rapture indicated in the stars and wrote it down for us to discover. He may not have known what year it was but God knew that if John simply recorded this very detailed sign in the heavens, 2000 years later mankind would be able to recognize it and put the pieces together. Perhaps God planned for it to be found years beforehand thus giving us plenty of time for study and a merciful wake-up period.
So click the video below and listen to Scott's point. This video should automatically start at the 10:15 mark but if it doesn't feel free to skip ahead. If Scott is correct this information could be a huge key to helping remove the "day nor hour" stumbling block that is so prevalent today. More information may come out in the future as it sounds like Scott is planning on doing a video on this topic at some point...
Listen from the 10:15 mark up until 17:20 mark to hear Scott articulate this point...
Jesus was talking before Pentecost event, talking to Jews but to HIS DISCIPLES and not to pharisees or scholars that would not understand. It is fairly clear to me that He uses the wedding idiom that was understood by the early church but then neglected later when giving up their Hebrew roots (Romans 11). As far as the angels are concerned, please compare the important role and duty of the prophets in 1 Peter 1,11-12!! Of course we may know the date of rapture such as there were prophets in Jesus' time on earth that saw the signs and calculated His first coming from scriptures (Isaiah 28,10). Why should God not tell us now if He told them then? The principle and method are the same like His word is. Good work, Scottie! ;-)
ReplyDeleteExcellent comments Annabel! Thanks!
DeleteJesus completely rebukes the argument that he was talking to only Jews under the old covenant.
ReplyDelete1. John 16: 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Matthew 5:8 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
When Jesus spoke the above neither the spring feasts nor the fall feasts had been fulfilled. Yet according to Jesus the law and the prophets had ceased with the advent of John. John was the last of the O.T. prophets. The evidence was that the kingdom of God was being preached and they were now ( as are we ) in the time of the fulfillment of what the law and the prophets had foretold.
2. When Jesus spoke on the Olivet discourse he said " 37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch." Mark 13:37. He gave the same instructions given to the Jewish congregation of Sardis in Revelation 3:3.
3. We need to be incredibly careful about this type of hyperdispensationalism that is conjured up in-order to deal with a trouble passage.
We need to keep in mind that we as the gentiles have been grafted into Israel. While there are very specific prophecies regarding Israel as a national entity we need to keep in mind that we have been grafted into them .
When Jesus spoke the above
Brad, thanks for you points. This is an excellent discussion. Glad this post led to such a in-depth conversation....which is what was needed. Appreciate your view, keep it coming!
DeleteHebrews 10:9
ReplyDeleteThen said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Absolutely !!!
Yes, before it was lambs and doves being sacrificed.... then it was Jesus Christ himself, once and for all. That's a clear shift in my opinion...
DeleteI follow the dispensation teaching of Rob Dean of InTheGripOfTheLamb youtube channel to learn high caliber line by line exegesis from a dallas theological seminary heritage perspective. The last few months he has been going over Matthew 24-25 specifically and I had wanted to bring up with the Rev 12 sign followers that the traditional academic teaching for the olivet discourse was that it was targeted to tribulation jews during the time of jacob's trouble.
ReplyDeleteHe has specifically stated that many use the matthew 24 passage as omens in precursor to the start of the 70th week of Daniel, but this is misapplication given the context. By no means is their camp endorsing revelation 12, but what I find fascinating is that the main line of defense for no one knowing the day or the hour comes from passages referring to the second coming, and not to the rapture. He addresses that even though we are given the times time and half a time +1260 days criteria for the transpiring of the 70th week, that because the events of the tribulation will be so disastrous and deceiving, the tribulation saints will be unable to determine for themselves exactly when the final day of the Lord is.
If the chapter includes looking for the abomination that makes desolation during the midst of the signs of his coming, then all of ch 24 must be indicative of signs that parallel the judgements of revelation in tandem, and not to general markers of the era preceding the harpazo. I do not remember exactly which video he hammers these points down, but Matthew 156b, 157b, 158b on his channel present the core arguments on why you cannot use these passages as sign seeking for the end of the church age.
I know this is a hard line to divide because many people use the parables from these chapters to apply directly to themselves liberally, but if you are utilizing a consistent hermeneutic the result must stand on its own even if it is counter intuitive or flying in the face of how popularly people have used Matthew 24 for determining proximal immanency.
I think it is ironic that people use the line of no one knowing the day or hour as an excuse not to "watch", when 1 Thessalonians 4-5, which is 100 percent a rapture passage, tells us to watch for the season of the last trump.
Steve, excellent comment. Thanks you brother for putting together such a detailed response. This was the type of information I was hoping this post would flush out. Thanks for reading and I am looking forward to hearing more from your point of view in the future!
DeleteLastly, I think you meant 1 Thes 5:4 above, and yes I agree. I find it so strange how that verse is so often disregarded despite the obvious context fit and clear language. We are not in darkness! Thank God for that!! That verse right there changed my walk...
Dear Steve, I have always understood Matthew 24,32 as a caesura between the first and second half of the chapter as the parable of the fig tree introduces another topic fairly clear. The first half speaks of the VISIBLE coming of Christ at the end of tribulation (v.27+30) and the second half of the HIDDEN coming concerning the rapture (because mentioning people "knew not" judgement coming in days of Noah and Lot). The biblical principle "Jews first..." from Romans 1,16; 2,9-10 helped me to see the reverse chronology that confuses many (even bible teachers) until today. There's much debate on this but to me this is pretty clear how and to whom Jesus now spoke about what, only from following this principle.
DeleteApart from that, I think the tribulation saints will very well know the day of Jesus' return for rescue because of Daniel 12,12 = endurance time given. Do you know the timeline Steven Sewell (Heavenlysign2017 channel) elaborated? I do not agree with everything he calculates but here he matches even the exact feast days of atonement and tabernacles in 2024 to an exact 1335 day difference from mid-trib. In any case we are not to stick to one single verse or chapter of the bible to get the whole puzzle set in place. Here I agree as well with Jaco Prinsloo about Isaiah 28,10 as another biblical principle for that (but as 28,9 shows, this can only be with the mature ones that can eat strong meat, not milk). Blessings to you brother and thank you for naming the Gripofthelamb channel, will have a look into! ;-)
@ Steve again, sorry I forgot: the "sign of the son of man" in Matt24,30 is not described in Rev12 but in Rev15,1. I found a brillant description of this here on the Unsealed site FYI: http://www.unsealed.org/2017/02/signs-in-heavens-second-advent.html?m=1 (TY Gary!!) Blessings again!
DeleteBACK TO THE TOPIC
ReplyDeleteThank you Brad and Scottie; another breakthrough! Proof we work as a team, and that YHWH provides.
I believe YHWH will reveal, within the coming hundred days, things hidden in the SCRIPTURES in front of our noses... That the BIBLE WILL BLOOM in our faces, confirming and comforting; either as new revelation from inside the Bible (at this whole post is about), or also as prophetic fulfillment (such as the end of Damascus).
I believe also that the "No one knows (hiding)" morphing into "The Revelation(revealing)" is a prime and beautiful example of this Bible blooming. The Bible is FULL of PARADOXES and PARALELISMS, which are YHWH's signature. How could Jesus not know the Hour, any Hour?: That is a PARADOX, it is destined to SHOCK us. Now that YHWH takes the time to REVEAL in the same order as he has HIDDEN, is destined to shock us also. A reverse paralelism, if you may. (I think this could make a terrific table to put both passages side by side, with order and reverse order of beings)
Thank YHWH that he has ONCE MORE attracted our attention to what is important to HIM, by the patience and study and labor of love of brothers, and that HE has supplied us with a new tool to witness to "lost and lukewarm", a tool that can defeat the stumbling block they put in our path: "No one knows the day nor the hour".
Now even those who will not consider that this applies only to the second coming; will read that: WHAT YHWH HAD HIDDEN, HE HAS NOW REVEALED.
Thanks also to Scott for Paul's "last trump", "trump of God"; John's "voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither", and rev 12 on the feast of Trumpets.
One small contribution: Throughout the Bible there are about a hundred places where YHWH asks us to "call on his name" QRA BE SHEM YHWH as in "All who will call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved". So we call on his name with a measure of sincerity and faith, and he hears us. But the CHURCH the ekklesia is "the called-out ones"; a convocation is MIQRA.
So When YHWH, HIMSELF will CALL ON OUR NAMES we will instantly be with HIM and receive the price of our love and faith! GLORY TO YHWH
Daniel
As I understand when the book of revelation was written a baby wasn't considered born until it came out between the woman's feet. If this is so it would push the date back. I've heard different preacher s talk on this.
ReplyDeleteI have been following your videos and it all seems amazing i love the revelation no pun intended on the day or the hour. however one thing i can't seem to figure out is the next verses
ReplyDelete42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
can you please shed some light or give your point of view
Thank you