Attempted Debunking by Answers in Genesis
- Leo actually has 10 stars, not 9
- The sign isn't visible to anybody
- He has known about this for 15 years
- It's only popular now because of YouTube
It was more than 15 years ago that I first heard the suggestion that this annual event might be a fulfillment of Revelation 12 in some particular year. Since then, interest in this idea has increased, with some people speculating or even predicting that “this is the year,” only to forget about it when nothing significant transpired before moving on to the next year’s occurrence. However, this year’s event has attracted much more attention than previously, so why is this year so different?
Why is this year different he asked? How about because this is the only year in all of history that actually matches the text?! See the point I made here and here. To match the sign ALL elements must be in place at the same time (including the 40+ week pregnancy pattern by Jupiter which he fails to mention). This is the only year, better yet, only day it all comes together, and this is verifiable and many have done so. I do truly LOVE any ministry that proves the Bible is true and spreads the Gospel. But in love, I must say AiG is clearly missing something if they haven't even looked at it closely enough to see what makes this year so unique.
The line at the end of the paragraph below is the one that really blows me away. Look at what he writes:
I have identified several problems with the supposed sign of September 23, 2017. However, there are other, broader problems with it. One of the purposes that God ordained for the stars is for them to be signs (Genesis 1:14). However, to truly be a sign, shouldn’t such things be obvious, at least to a few people?This is my response and I will try to be loving... It. Is. Obvious. My Brother in Christ, if the sign wasn't visible to tens of thousands of people, you wouldn't be writing your article. The idea that because we need technology to see the sign it somehow diminishes it is absurd. How about the Andromeda Galaxy, or Saturn's Rings or any major Astronomical Discovery in the last 200 years? Do we throw those out the window because we needed technology to discover them? Are they invalid just because we can't see them with the naked eye? Do you see how absurd this argument is? Additionally, Amos might have a few words that may apply to the matter.
I do give AiG credit for mentioning Gen 1:14, but you would think that key piece of info wouldn't be slid in at the end of the article, especially considering it comes from the book that is the focal point of their entire ministry.
I will admit that his point about Leo having 10 stars in some charts is atleast fair. But I say this; In the #1 Free Astronomy Program used today, which happens to have a precedent of being used in making biblical discoveries, Leo is shown with exactly 9 connected stars. So I choose to believe that God, in his perfect wisdom, could have nudged the makers of this software (and MOST other charts I believe) to show just 9 stars connected in Leo, for the precise reason this sign would be found. And it worked. He is that good.
Plus when I look up there on any given night, 9 stars are what I see. : )Read the article and decide for yourself if he shuts the case on this sign. Also, go outside tonight and look at Leo. I am guessing that you will see what I see, 6 stars on the right that make "The Sickle", and 3 stars to the left that look like a triangle. Nine stars, each one at least bright enough to see, even in the suburbs. Also, be sure to stop by the comments section of the Answers in Genesis Facebook page. But PLEASE, before you leave some mean spirited comment, remember we are to do all things in LOVE (1 Corinthians 16:14). Simply point out the Scripture and the facts and pray that some eyes will be opened.
Thank you for sharing, Brad! This is EXACTLY the one and only (!) article one of Europes most acknowledged prophecy teachers Br. Roger Liebi (Suisse) does now constantly quote during his presentations, urgently asking his audience NOT to believe in anything of Rev12-sign but in imminency as "the" good and proper traditional way of thinking for a wise Christian. Of course, any further private research will then be blighted instantly and nevermore asked for. I recently got in contact with a sister showing me this, he mentions it also in YouTube videos; I hardly could convince her to search for other resources because her English was so bad to do the research on her own. In the German speaking church (D, A, CH) as well as at international conferences unfortunately this brother (he is saved but ... Luke 12,45-48!) has much influence on the Christian mindset regarding prophecy and finally Rev12-sign too. The irony of all this is that he himself wrote a remarkable book on endtimes topic and prophecy fulfilment just some years ago which was very good, here's some video excerpt in English: https://youtu.be/l9GdDpggMc8 Well, everybody will be held accountable before our LORD Jesus Christ who also told us that some of the 'first' (bible teachers, big name scholars, missionaries etc) could be last in the end and vice versa... Much blessings to you!
ReplyDeleteThanks Annabel. It's always good to hear your perspective from across the pond. : )
DeleteThere is something very peculiar going on when thousands and thousands of "regular" Christians see something so obviously beautiful and accurate yet nearly all of the "prominent" Christian teachers see it the exact opposite. I have yet to put my figure on the source of this phenomena....
Years ago I just might have given in and said, "well, they are the experts so I should trust what they say". But everything I have read in the Bible itself and in my Spirit tells me that this is significant. And their arguments against it don't make sense!
I have not and will not say that the Rapture will definitely happen on or around 9-23-17... all I can say is that this sign should get your attention and that there is a surely chance it does. I hope that increased possibility gets you excited just like it does me. The thought that we could see our Lord soon is so humbling and yet so so so so amazzzzzzzzzing! : )
Oh yes Brad, it definitely does excited me! And it HAS TO be like it (Luke 18,8 b), it is just completely truth and confirms what Jesus said before. We are living in exceptional times but guess what: the disciples of Jesus too = Luke 10,24! ## Concerning "date setting" I would say that in Gods plan everything has its defined season, time and EXACT day. So why beat around the bush? ;-) I just read Luke 17,27+29 again, the Greek word for "day" is 'hemera' which is for a normal, natural 24-h-day and nothing else, not metaphorical but literal. We should expect accuracy from the LORD in all these things... (from these verses I do also assume we will literally be snatched away out from great danger i.e. some meteorite impact or tsunami event so we should be prepared to pray and not fear until then) ## Transatlantic greetings!
DeleteWell said. I'll be sharing this!
ReplyDeleteThank you!
DeleteBrad, I have noticed the very same thing. All the prominent prophecy teachers, with books to sell, and even those on Facebook and YouTube with a "following," are all trying to discount this obvious sign. I have never seen anything like it. So I thought about it some more, and what we are seeing is definitely a spiritual battle going on. All those that hate it have big voices with money or media to back them up. All those that love this sign and have the faith to believe it are the "Nobodies."
ReplyDeleteWe, the Nobodies have no great following.
The Nobodies have nothing to sell and are not looking for money to be made.
The Nobodies have faith in this sign simply because it is biblical and we believe God can fulfill this sign in this way.
The Nobodies listen and believe, because we simply want to see His face.
And who did Jesus speak to when He was on this earth? The Nobodies!
He trusted 12 Nobodies to build His church.
He fed 5,000 Nobodies.
He healed and forgave the Nobodies.
He let Himself be surrounded by large groups of Nobodies and He loved them!
And what did He do call the religious leaders of His day? The ones with the great following with the money and "power" behind them? He called them Hypocrites!
I'll stand with the Nobodies any day!
Your thoughts echo my thoughts friend... If you look at pretty much all of the people doing the serious research on this sign most aren't making money on it...if so basically through donations. Unlike the big guys and gals who have buildings to pay off, bills to pay, staff to support, multiple books to sell and dvd's to produce. All that stuff takes an incredible amount of money and attention, leaving less and less for God.
DeleteOn a sad note, of the few bigger ministries that have produced material on this from what I have seen much of it was stolen through plagiarism and outright stealing of intellectual property (charts / graphics / etc.) with no recognition given or permission asked for. It breaks my heart that this once in a lifetime sign that God has placed in the heavens for all to see is still being corrupted by the sin of this world. It also breaks my heart that so many prominent teachers who I believe sincerely love the Lord have dismissed this amazing gift without even studying it halfway thoroughly. If they spent the same amount of time on this rather than writing about if Emmanuel Macron is potentially the Anti-Christ, well perhaps more souls could be saved.
With that all I can say is Jesus take us home soon! Thanks for reading!
Also, if you missed it click the link below as this article dissects what is potentially going on with these bigger ministries and the $$$. A lot of it is backlash from the Blood Moons which they felt meant nothing after hyping it up for months. So now they are resistant to anything astronomical...
Deletehttp://www.alittlestrength.com/articles/2017/1705-exit-sign.htm#cont
Agreed. No dollar signs $$ in the eyes of the heavy-hitters this time around. The Rev. 12 sign is too precise and leaves little room for vagueness and hype. Greg also wrote an excellent article back in 2016 called "Den of Thieves." He nailed it: http://www.alittlestrength.com/articles/2016/1606-thieves.htm
DeleteThanks for the link Jeff... I will check it out.
DeleteVery unfair of you to make the claim that these people are about the money. You have no evidence for that. Maybe YOU are "about the money."
DeleteYou claim "It. Is. Obvious." Brad, if it really was obvious we would have many more Christians coming forward than "thousands", and they would all independently arrive at these conclusions. The only reason people have been talking about this, is the spread of the theory on the web. Nobody would have given any of this a second thought without that. For 100s of years, the vast majority of Christians have interpreted Revelation 12 as symbolic of Israel. Just like Joseph's dream.
You claim that all six elements of the sign were in play last September.
1. What is so special about "6 things"? There are far more than 6 elements of this passage.
2. Why do YOU get to determine what the "6 things" were to be?
What about these things?
- the woman was not "clothed" with the sun. Virgo did not have the sun enwrapping her like clothing. If you are going to use the words of the Bible...then use them. All of them.
- the stars did not look anything like a crown.
- the stars were not ON HER HEAD. they were merely in the vicinity of her head.
- she did not "cry" in pain.
You mock and scoff at people who don't accept your view of this. But of course, as soon as we get to Verse 3-4, suddenly the heavenly bodies take on an entirely new meaning. Why? I have a hunch it is because nobody has imagined anything that will fit.
This is nothing more than imagination at work, and the sad part is, it's being used as True Doctrine. Doctrine that must be defended to the extent that you call your brethren out for only caring about "money" since they don't agree.
Be careful. Very, very careful. We will all answer for what we say.
The Woman is "clothed" in the Sun. When something is clothed... IT IS NOT FULLY VISIBLE. Not being easily seen (except just after sunset or just before dawn) is itself a fulfillment of the prophecy.
ReplyDeleteSo... I know this is a couple months over due, but THANK YOU! I wrestled actually with this being one of the most confusing parts of the sign. Why? Because I naturally expected the sun to be somewhere in her torso. That's where clothes go. The fact that it was above her made it seem somewhat wrong to me. Your clarification was like a light bulb. And, since the sun was above Virgo's head, we would never see her unclothed. Right? I mean if the sun had been in her torso, wouldn't we have seen parts of Virgo before the sunrise? So, she would not have been covered up or clothed before sunrise.
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