Lu Vega's Thoughts from Five Doves
If you haven't read this yet, below is a link of Lu Vegas thoughts about the Rev12 Sign and the timing of the Rapture which many directly corresponded to the date of the sign. Lu has been a deeply involved in the Rev12 Sign for many years and I value his thoughts because he has been so close to it for so long. This link was shared on Five Doves this weekend and earlier on Lu's personal site.
Click the link to read his views and then come back and let us all know what you think...
I will just interject one small reminder:
God is in control of all this.
I really believe that all this is playing out according to His perfect plan. All of us are far from perfect, but we all play our part in fulfilling His good purposes and His plan.He is so good He can even use mistakes and miscalculations to bring it about. Just keep that in mind...
Another thing to remember is that just because the rapture hasn't happened yet, that in no way invalidates the legitimacy of the sign. The sign stands on its own two feet. We recognized the Great Sign... to me that was crystal clear. But figuring out the precise timing of the events it points to (if that's even possible) has always been the foggy and speculative part and remains so to this day, obviously. But to me our recognition of the sign was accurate... there is no reason to doubt that.
Anyway, here is the link to Lu's article:
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2017/luisv101-2.htm
Here is his graphic:
Click the link to read his views and then come back and let us all know what you think...
I will just interject one small reminder:
God is in control of all this.
I really believe that all this is playing out according to His perfect plan. All of us are far from perfect, but we all play our part in fulfilling His good purposes and His plan.He is so good He can even use mistakes and miscalculations to bring it about. Just keep that in mind...
Another thing to remember is that just because the rapture hasn't happened yet, that in no way invalidates the legitimacy of the sign. The sign stands on its own two feet. We recognized the Great Sign... to me that was crystal clear. But figuring out the precise timing of the events it points to (if that's even possible) has always been the foggy and speculative part and remains so to this day, obviously. But to me our recognition of the sign was accurate... there is no reason to doubt that.
Anyway, here is the link to Lu's article:
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2017/luisv101-2.htm
Here is his graphic:
 |
| Click to Enlarge |
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWell Brad, you put me in the ‘hot seat’ now :). No worries, we all should be tested against Scripture as that is our sure foundation and that includes my teachings no less. I agree Brad that the LORD has allowed this to occur and have us be where we are at. The LORD is sifting for sure and has allowed a Great Shake-Up’ to occur. Many on the ‘fence’ about Jesus have fallen on either side; some have perhaps even left the LORD or stopped ‘walking’ with Jesus and others for sure have come closer because of this Rev 12 Sign. As I wrote the response, realize that I did it out of love and consider it in the context of our Rev 12 Community and family. As Brad rightly stated, it is not over, the Sign is a huge bench mark in Prophetic Time and one day we all will realize just why now and for what purpose.
DeleteI just wanted to address the Teachers as they are to be held to a higher standard. In no way am I saying I have figured it out or have arrived. The books of Daniel and Revelation were the first books I read and for more than 30 years studying it, I still do not ‘get it’. However, I believe the LORD has allowed me to see some amazing insights that humbles me profoundly. The more one studies and ‘knows’, the more one realizes just how much we do not really know. I just ache for those that followed to the point that they trusted the leading of various Teachers – even now… without caution or reservation on this complex subject because they are tender, or simply ‘trust’ those that teach the WORD and expound of possible prophetic events to include the timing of the Rapture. No 'Anonymous', Is that you Marianne-Howard? I did not 'toss under the bus' the Rev 12 crowd. I support the study of the Sign, not the Rapture timing. All my research stressed this as I knew this would exactly happen. Brad can attest to this. It is just that I hold back tears when I read comments on YouTube channels like the ones below. I was prompted to write it for those who have ears to hear...
‘XXXX, I missed a lot of work over worrieing about this Rapture I believed you and could not get it off my mind, I've been unable to work I've been parying trying to be ready,ALL MY BILLS ARE DUE NOW AND I MIGHT LOSE MY HOME AND I HAVE A WIFE AND TWO GIRLS 10 AND 12 YEARS OLD. should I not worry about a new date and get back to work ??? I've been waiting for a new video from you , what's going to happen???’
Robyn, I feel your frustration but let us be part of the solution as was the purpose of my ‘entreaty’ as we have to feed the Sheep and be on the lookout for our Brethren. I thank Brad for having such a website like this where we can come to a ‘safe place’ and discuss our points of view, exchange ideas, pick up new ones and hear others out. As you said, you do not all agree as I with others but let us not give up in seeking Jesus and test the spirit of such teachings for the benefit of others. Yes, the ‘Sign’ was what the focus was but they point or should to Jesus. Aside from the Rapture Roulette :), Let us continue to study this amazing Sign for our generation and seek Jesus to discern, encourage and entreat, if need be.
Blessings
Lu
Psalm 27 Still…
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteRobyn I know what you mean. If only we could know when and then we could pin it down.
DeleteSo why do I still torture myself with trying to figure out the hour??? Well because it gives me hope, strengthens my resolve, and teaches that the Lord is sovereign and he will reveal things as the time is right AND I don't want to miss a thing. The hour is sooooo short now. Too many things coming together. Whatever you decide to do, I am praying that it gives you blessings and strengthens you for the Lords work. Maybe like you said we will just have to be like the virgins waiting until the Bridegroom Himself comes to take us into the feast. In the meantime blessings sister and stay strong for Him. We will see you up there.
Lu Vega, after tossing the Rev 12 crowd under the bus has made a few false assumptions you should be aware of.
ReplyDelete1. "Jesus cleanses the 3rd Temple" Not quite Jesus returns with "Eyes of Flame" (Rev 19:12) to destroy the 3rd Temple, Satan's Seat and the Abomination of Desolation; Antichrist and False Prophet become the first guests for eternity in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone (Rev 19:20) with Satan chained in the Bottomless Pit during the Millennium (Rev 20:1-3)
2. "Jesus was born on Feast of Trumpets 3 BC" No quite. Jesus was born 6 months after John the Baptist's Passover birth on Feast of Tabernacles (15 Ethanim; Tishrei is the Babylonian version) and Circumcised on the 8th Day of Tabernacles (22 Ethanim) in accordance with the Covenant He made as Melchisedek with Abraham and his descendants. Jesus was the New Covenant "Tabernacle". 3 BC? Not quite. Herod ordered the Slaughter of Innocents 2 and under and died soon after the Lunar Eclipse recorded by Josephus in Spring 4 BC; by then, Jesus as a "Young Child" (Mat 2KJV) was in Egypt, having been born Feast of Tabernacles 6 BC; if He was 6 months old, the term "Young Child" would not have been used; is 2 1/2, there would have been no need to send Jesus and his family into Egypt.
3. "Jesus is the Sun, the Servant Candle of the Menorah" Not quite. Shemesh means "Sun" and is the Servant Candle on the Hanukkah Menorah. Jesus was Nailed to one Tree between 2 Thieves, forming the 7 Branch Candlestick Moses was ordered to construct for the Tabernacle. 6 uplifted arms around the Savior brought an end to the Old Covenant, the 7th Covenant between God and Man.
4. "1260 days from cessation of Daily Sacrifices is the 2nd Coming" Not quite. The Great Tribulation lasts 1260 Days, 42 Months. "Mid Week" of Daniel 9:27 means what it says. The Covenant with Many lasts 7 Days; the Covenant is broken with the murder of God's final 2 Witnesses (Enoch and Elijah) in Jerusalem who lie in the streets of Spiritually, Sodom and Egypt (Rev 11:8KJV) 3 days until they rise as the 7th Trumpet heralds the resurrection of Jesus' followers at the Last Trumpet (1 Cor 15:52) Trump of God (1 Thess 4:16). Satanists rejoice over their dead bodies sending gifts to one another and Jesus returns to Trump the Feast.
I humbly suggest you read Scripture without "Private Interpretation" folks! Time is short.
I see what he's saying- intellectually. But in my spirit, I left downtrodden after reading it. Maybe some of us have been wrong about thinking we could go so far as to even SPECULATE- "might this make this or that date be a good candidate for the rapture?" I don't know and feel confused about all of it now. I've been praying a lot that the Lord would help us to watch- not shy away from it- and encourage one another all the more as we see the day approaching. But that if we should stop shy of "he's coming soon" that He would make that clear to us. I'm not yet convinced that just because the speculating around dates haven't yet turned out to be the right ones, is an indicator that we ought not to be doing so! Hopefully, we don't shut down as a community of watchers and bereans who are only trying to learn and study this! Maybe there's a balance to be found amidst all of it- but it's hard for me to think of being balanced as anything other than something that waters us down and removes enthusiasm. I get it- sensationalizing stuff goes too far and causes us to rely on that high ad a false idol of sorts- but the vast majority of you wonderful watchmen I have been following along with have not been doing that- you have simply been pointing us to study- to CONSIDER times and seasons and even some POSSIBLE dates. I guess the main thing is that we should all pray the Lord will show us how to stay excited and actively watchful, while at the same time, telling us when we might be going too far. It's frustrating! But maybe it's part of what He's teaching us and we don't understand all of it yet.😳
ReplyDeleteAnnie,
DeleteThank you for your response and thoughts, I appreciate them. Yes, the tone was that of an admonishment but more specifically addressed to the Teachers. I agree totally with your assessments; that is basically what was/is the substance of the entreaty. If I may interject a small teaching here? Realize that such ‘Signs’ as Rev 12 and others like the Great American Eclipse as a type of Jonah and Nineveh should have us look to Jesus and not the ‘Signs’ themselves. More importantly to be careful not to ‘tag’ a Rapture timing on them, dogmatically. I believe this is what occurred in part. We got so fixated in the Sign’ and ‘Signs’ that we took our eyes off Jesus as it were. Evidence? The vindictiveness on both sides of the issue. That is not honoring Christ or glorifying His Name. As we look at Biblical Prophecy through a dim and foggy glass, the book of Hebrews tells us that despite all such ‘Signs’ to come, WE SEE JESUS. He is the more sure WORD of Biblical Prophecy and consider this as Hebrews suggests, can it be that the reason that the LORD has not allowed us to know the specific day and time of the Rapture is because that is to be part of our suffering? Why? To teach us to only see JESUS.
Blessings,
Lu
In Hebrews 2:8-10, it states, ‘and placed everything under his feet. When God subjected all things to him, He left nothing outside of his control. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone. In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting for God, for whom and through whom all things exist, to make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.’
Annie, God gave you your intellect; trust the word the way God wrote it, not Private Interpretations of men; you will not find 7 Yr Tribulation or Pre-Tribulation Rapture mentioned or even hinted at in scripture. They both come from Interpreting Dan 9:24 "70 Weeks" and 9:27 "Week" as Weeks worth of Years; God did not write it that way and does not want us to guess or depend on Chronologies derived from Babylonian and Persian Kings lists and guesses as to the birth and death year of Jesus Christ. The final warning Jesus gave us is called Laodicean "Luke Warm"; Pre-Tribulation Rapture is the most Laodicean of all teachings as it causes apathy among Christians. Looking up for our redemption is a death sentence; Jesus will return for His followers at the 7th and final Trumpet Warning; of that you can count on, but when He arrives with "Eyes of Flame" and is called "The Word of God" with KING OF KINS, AND LORD OF LORDS written on His blood soaked robe, you will wish for eternity you never saw that.
DeleteBrad has stated Revelation is not Chronological? This is a Lie Lu Vega promotes with his Interpretations of Dan 9:24-27 as well. Rev 1-7 are Warnings of the Great Tribulation. Rev 8 describes the 1st 4 Trumpets; Rev 9 the final 3 Trumpets. Rev 10 a detailed description of the 7th Trumpet. Rev 11:2 12:6 and 13:5 all describe the same 1260 day, 42 month Great Tribulation. Rev 14 the victory of Jesus Christ, Armageddon, fall of Babylon and Resurrection of Saints. Rev 15 a description of God's Wrath. Rev 16 a description of 7 Vials of God's Wrath. Rev 17 a detailed description of MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Rev 18 God's view of the fall of "Babylon". Rev 19 a description of the Wedding of the Lamb, 2nd Coming, the doom of Satan chained in Bottomless Pit for the Millennium, Antichrist and False Prophet consigned for eternity to the Lake of Fire and Brimstone. Rev 20 is a description of the Millennium, Gog and Magog, Great White Throne of Judgment, 2nd Death, and consignment of Satan and his followers to the Lake of Fire for eternity. Rev 21 a description of New Jerusalem, New Heavens, New Earth. Rev 22 is a description of Eternal Paradise and a warning not to change anything in the Word of God.
Thank you for responding Lu! My greatest prayer of the past month has been that the Lord would help us to long for His appearing MORE for his glory than for our own rescue- not that it is a bad thing to want to go home- but as part of my longing for my desires to be more about Him and less about me. I feel that is one of the things I am learning through all of this- and may He complete that work within us as much as He so desires until such time He comes for us! I think that is how He can take things that "feel" like a bummer and make them all work out- for our own good, and for His glory! ❤️
Deleteamen, amen! Finally a voice of reason. If all the Rev 12 folks had presented the sign with this much thought and discernment I would have been able to consider it more seriously. All the hype, pride, ego, personality, date setting, failed prophecies, etc was a turn off. Now they're clearly stuck in a state of cognitive dissonance since their prophecies failed to materialize. If the sign was in fact significant in some way, that significance has sadly been lost by the over the top hype and now, ironically, it's been discredited by the very ones that over sold it and over promised.
ReplyDeleteThank you Lu for a well written and much needed article (and to anon above - yes there will always be something you/I disagree with). My only question is "where were you when we needed you?". We had timely articles from the likes of Greg L bringing into question some of the deeply held beliefs of a sept 23 rapture, and some of us 'unknowns' have been raising concerns about our desire to desperately want to read Rev12 in any order except in that which it was written. Joel Richardson always makes good points on why the rev12 discussions were problematic, however this was not always carried out in a Godly manner leading many to not even bother to listen to his objections. We needed your article a month prior to Sept23 to ensure people were receiving right reasoning before the Hysteria kicked in.
ReplyDeleteCan I suggest a back to basics...i.e. lets read fully into Rev12 and ask the key questions such as "if vs 1 and 2 notes a woman who is in pain and anguish as she was about to give birth, then what might this look like", it will allow us to endure a little less scoffing/mocking from all quarters.
And I would love to hear from the Jeffs/Garrys (unsealed) of this world as to whether they now believe they 'got it wrong' (starting with Isaiah 66!), or if there is opportunity to rethink what the scripture might be saying.
Finally - Robyn - don't go! We need a quality community of believers to stick with this through thick and thin, and despite our 'getting it wrong' more often than not, we hold one thing in common - which is a desire to see his Kingdom come and to see people come into a saving knowledge of Christ. I get it wrong so often, but it is through our 'love for one another that the world will see that we are His disciples'. Lets go for loving and supporting each other the closer we get to Jesus return.
Ryan
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteHello Ryan! :)
DeleteI’ve been here all along! Well, at www.PostScripts.org and tried to post the same on 5 Doves since 2009 or so. If I may, allow me to share my disposition of how I have been sharing my work/research of not only the Rev 12 Sign but other studies that I love such as Asto-Archeology, etc. I am naturally a shy person and English is not my first language. Having dyslexia, I never wrote well and all my studies, which are my personal times of meditation have I just kept to my family and close friends. It was at their prompting to have them go live and public for the benefit of the Body. Despite my strong reservation, I was/am willing for that but realize that the LORD explicitly conveyed in my Spirit to not do videos. I am a videographer as I do many vids for our University programs so that is not a problem. I can see why now the LORD had me withhold such a medium. Sure, the videos could have been done but the other half of my admonishment from the LORD was to write it and show it instead. I realize that in this day and age of the online internet revolution generation, if it is not stated, seen in 3 seconds or less, the attention span will be gone. My disposition of presenting my research, though as you rightly state, is not agreeable to all and admittedly, it is not for ‘everyone’. I trust the LORD to bring those that need to hear and see my work; to just consider it, nothing more. Who am I?
I just love Prophecy and want to be like a Daniel. If you read my Testimony, you will see that my up-bringing was much like Daniel, though nowhere near his level by far, I am a sinner saved by grace. (http://www.postscripts.org/testimony-1.html) So, my articles have been there all along and have been side by side supporting my fellow Rev 12 Teachers. I even compiled a book on the Virgo Sign basically that chronicles the nearly 10 years of study of its different aspect and amazing attributes. You can download it for free. It is long.
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=F18D5BF95B5644F2&id=F18D5BF95B5644F2%216130&parId=F18D5BF95B5644F2%216153&o=OneUp
It has been because of such intricacies found regarding the Rev 12 Sign that for sure I am so convinced this Sign is for our generation and of the End Times; of how close the Rapture is and the coming end of the Church Age. For example, here below is the subsequent occurrence after the Rev 12 as it dissipates. Amazingly, if one looks at the astronomical models, it appears as if the Sun is shepherding the planets out of Virgo. Do you realize that most of the visible planets are in Virgo at this time? October to December will be very unique and interesting to study in that sense as they are in this quadrant.
OCT 13 Jupiter leaves Virgo and Mars ‘birthed’ in Virgo ‘womb’ area on Shemini Atzeret (8th Day of Assembly – eve of the Last and Great Day of the Feast)
OCT 16 Mercury leaves Virgo
OCT 21 Sun-Jupiter-Mercury conjunction in Virgo and Venus at Porrima with Mars at head area of Virgo
OCT 25 Sun-Jupiter conjunction in Virgo
NOV 09 Venus leaves Virgo
NOV 13 Jupiter-Venus conjunction in Virgo
NOV 29 Mars ‘birthed’ in Virgo ‘womb’ area
DEC 10 Mars leaves Virgo
DEC 24 Jupiter in Libra
Greg did a good job then and that is what was needed to be said and he did. Remember the account of the LORD of what happened when the Rich Man and Lazarus died? No amount of resurrected can/could have convinced otherwise. As my entreaty was and is that, it is the WORD, Jesus that is enough and should be. Signs like the Rev 12 are amazing but are auxiliary. Many are perhaps insinuating that we should totally abandon the ‘Sign’, nope….just no Rapture Day setting. Why have I spoken up now? I have all along, but as I mentioned through articles and postings mainly. At this point and time, I was prompted by the LORD to and only write it because such Teachers still continue unequivocally and without apology to insist on Rapture dates, even now.
Thanks for that Lu. Wise thoughts...and I need to consider people's comments more rather than purely focusing on well written articles:)
DeleteI have an honest and sincere question: what grounds do we have for saying that Rev 12:1-2 was fulfilled on 9/23? I realize there seems to be a match between what was seen in the sky on that day and Rev 12, but if we were wrong - if we missed something, or if that passage is talking about something else - how would we know?
ReplyDeleteHow can we tell "this was definitely it" from "this was a false positive"? If 9/23 wasn't it - if we were wrong - how could we tell? What would have happened differently? Think about it for a moment. If there is no visible difference between what we would expect if our interpretation of the sign was TRUE verses if it was FALSE, shouldn't that bother us a little?
My concern is that we've created a situation where our assumption about 9/23 cannot be falsified. We assume we were right and then build on that. But isn't that a pretty big assumption? Don't we need more evidence before we can say that we were right about 9/23?
Jonathan
Hello Jonathan,
DeleteThanks for the general question. I can only offer what has been one of the major observations regarding the Rev 12 Sign phenomenon. I have stated that the Sign was ‘fulfilled’ but only in the astronomical sense. Despite how many others, to include PhD Astronomers, this Sign and alignment of the planets is unique. Sure, other near approximations have occurred but to have the odds compounded by all that was attributed to the Sign is beyond coincidence.
1. Sun in Virgo
2. Moon at Feet
3. 3 planet alignment
4. Alignment to Great Pyramid Christ Angle
5. Jupiter in approximate 9 month retrograde in Virgo
6. Comet 67 conjoining Moon on day (50 year Jubilee of 1967 liberation of Jerusalem)
7. Conception Comet, from Leo 3 days prior to Jupiter (Planet of the Messiah) entered ‘womb’ area of Virgo
8. Google cover-up of area of ‘Red Dragon’ anomaly where Jupiter goes through
9. Region of Red Dragon is adjacent the HIP 666 Stars of Virgo
10. Dragon Capsule from SpaceX conjoining NOAA and Timed satellites on the 23rth at Moonset
What is a mystery and was/is the major cause of confusion is that the alignment occurred astronomically now and not during what many believe is the juncture of the mid-Tribulation nexus point. Thus, I speculate a ‘retro-active’ point of prophecy is occuring in that I am convinced, so far that the Rapture event of the Bride of Christ is depicted in chapter 4. The Rapture of chapter 12 is that of the 144k that are Jewish in context as they are waving the palm branches and singing the Song of Moses…totally a Jewish context, not that of the mostly gentile Bride of Christ. (think of Ruth and Boaz.) However, the ‘harpazo’ of the Manchild is indicative of the Bride of Christ….Thus my take on it that there are actually 2 subjects being ‘birthed’; 1 goes up, 1 goes out. (Study the typology of Pisces).
So, I just present what I see witnessed by my Spirit and understanding. I am not trying to convince any nor seek a following. I try to be open, objective and not dogmatic about all such issues, especially when the Scripture is vague or leaves room for interpretation. I try not to be as Howard in that if someone does not agree with his private interpretations, then one is a ‘Liar’. I hate to be him when He stands before the King to have to justify how he took the liberty to be an Accuser of the Brethren and sit with the seat of scoffers. Psalm 1:1 ‘How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners, Nor sit in the seat of scoffers!’
Jonathan,
DeleteI struggle with your same thoughts about this sign. How can we be certain that it fulfills what the text says, at least in its physical manner?
I've ran across someone's youtube comment a week or so ago that said something to this effect: "To believe that this is not the fulfillment of the Revelation 12:1-2 sign, you would have to believe that God accidentally put a constellation of a woman with the moon under her feet, 9 main stars with 3 wandering stars in perfect alignment over her head during the day where she is clothed with the sun while also having Jupiter do a retrograde motion within her stomach area for 42 weeks in the sky that eerily seems to match exactly what He put in the Bible. Not to mention within the timeframe of highly important anniversaries for Israel."
"My only question is 'where were you when we needed you?'. We had timely articles from the likes of Greg L..."
ReplyDeleteI deeply appreciate the compliment, but please--I'm embarrassed to have my name mentioned in the same sentence with Lu Vega. He is *light years* ahead of me, believe me.
Actually, I suspect Lu was smart enough to stay out of this whole fiasco because he saw what was happening, and frankly I don't blame him. Hordes of people frantically chasing after every Internet guru out there with a pet theory to feed their speculative mania...clamoring for a date to hang their hats on and steam-rolling anyone who deigned to disagree.
To be honest, there are still days when part of me almost wishes I had stayed out of it, too.
My hope now is that a lot of people can just calm down a little and understand that there can be an exceedingly fine line between reasonable, biblically based speculation and straight up date-setting.
I'm not trying to get on anyone's case, because to some degree the critics themselves were the ones primarily responsible for turning this whole thing into a date-setting frenzy, and I think some good people inadvertently got caught up in it against their better judgment. This was a good strategy on part of the critics, because now that the date (that the majority of us never set) has passed, the naysayers feel justified in painting us all with the same tin-foil-hat paintbrush, and thus can successfully "discredit" the entire REV12 sign movement--which has been their goal from the beginning. The message they pushed was "REV12 sign = date-setting lunacy," and now they're satisfied because it's official. They won, we lost. They were right, we were wrong. White--black...end of story.
But that's NOT the end of the story, oh no. Yes, we should be doing our best to understand what is happening, but let's be sure to do it with the attitude of being open to what the Father is revealing to us, and submitting ourselves to *that* rather than trying to wrangle ways to simply pin the Rapture to the next feast, whatever it may be. Let's shake off this frustrating, disappointing "Pin the Rapture on the Moed" mentality we are so deeply mired in and just look up with hearts overflowing with the joy of the Spirit that should characterize believers in the gospel because we KNOW our redemption draweth nigh.
Maranatha, and I mean that.
Hola Hermano Greg!
DeleteComo estas? Hope all is well with you as we all continue seeking the LORD and His calling for us...
Bendeciones en El Senor!
Lu
Muy bien, gracias...as I scrape the rust off my Spanish =;)
DeleteYou know, Lu, I wish more people would make an effort to check out some of your material, but I can understand why many don't because much of it is deep and not exactly for the faint of heart. I'm grappling with some of your stuff about Hezekiah's signet and the Winged Disk...this stuff just blows me away!
I pray the Father gives us all the wisdom to perceive what He is doing in these exciting times.
Greg
Oh my goodness!
ReplyDeleteMatt. 18:2-4 "And Jesus called a little child unto him, and sat him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted; and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven."
This is getting complicated beyond measure as I am sure the walking encyclopedia of biblical misinformation is delighting in. Notice his line that "Looking up for our redemption is a death sentence." Who is it that mixes just enough truth with a lie to sell it???
Look at the 10 virgins again. They know the wedding is coming. (Rev 12 sign) Verse 1: they all went forth to meet the bridegroom, but it wasn't time yet.
So they went back to sleep but the smart ones kept ready with oil knowing how close it was. Then the midnight INVITATION was issued to go out and meet him. You can still function and be watching. How else does one pray without ceasing? Rent due? Pay it. School bus coming? Put them on. Then pray the check clears and everybody gets home safe. And then add Even so, come Lord Jesus. Relax, check your oil and lift up your heads and rejoice for your redemption draweth nigh and it brings with it eternal life with Yeshua! Maranatha!
Sheila,
DeleteGood advise. Yes, those that long for His Appearing, the ‘Ephiphania’ must persevere and have that reserve of the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Agreed, as a typology of the coming Rapture of the King for His Bride, the Parable of the 10 Virgin speak to our day and present condition perhaps. Growing up in a 3rd world country, I can relate how my uncles would section off a portion of the large house to make it habitable for his bride and soon coming family. It was a house within a house much like the Mansions will be within the ‘House of YHVH’. With some poetic license, it won’t be until the Father inspects the dwelling to make sure the Son has made the accommodations to specs.
It is then the Best Man that is dispatched at midnight and goes half way of the Bride’s place and with a laud shout proclaims that the Groom is coming. So, perhaps the Bride of Christ will have a corporate warning of some sort. Knowing that the Parable is a type, I have heard that the 10 Virgins are actually the contingent of the Bridesmaids. Nonetheless, as a type, the Wise ones came out to meet the Groom halfway and then were escorted to the Marriage Supper and thereafter to the Wedding Chamber for 7 days as the Best Man kept watch. Can you image what that shout will be like, what language, will it be audible? Will we actually hear the voice of Jesus say to us as He did with John, ‘Come up here’?
For sure the key as you mentioned is having that oil that speaks of not quenching the Spirit. I like very much what Pastor JD Farag said about ‘what would one do if one knew a day or a couple of hours before that the Rapture was go occur?’ He stated that for him, he would do as he has, which has been to tell others to be prepared at all times. And he reiterated that the last words of Jesus in Revelation was essential to ‘keep on doing’ as in those that seek Righteousness to do so and those that do not likewise; very sobering.
On a personal note. I grew up a farm and was in FFA and raised lambs, suffix. I was taught that flies, and other insects pester, bite, molest and can cause disease as they ley eggs and can become larvae, etc. One remedy was to ‘anoint’ or lather the entire lamb with oil…mouth, nose, eyes, ears, feet, body. This prevented the flies from landing on them. Spiritually speaking, in these End Times, we need to be those Followers of Jesus that are so anointed and immersed in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that the ‘flies’ of the world and the Enemy cannot land on us. Sites like this are no different as we need to uphold one another, Brad and his family that flies go away. The key, is to be walking with Jesus and as we go throughout our daily lives as noted as we don’t know what today or tomorrow bring our way, but we have done our part in watching, waiting and are prepared.
So brothers and sisters, comfort one another with those words of HOPE (as we're told to do by Paul). Can't you just feel the hope as the day approaches!!! So if we're going into the trib, then doesn't ALL of the church go into the trib? I mean, that wouldn't be fair to us if all of the people that have died already, get a pass on going through the trib....so where in scripture does it speak of this resurrection BEFORE the trib starts?
DeleteThere's not a pre-trib resurrection you say?? Then if you're right, we should all just go to the ISIS guillotine today.
Correct Lance, No Pre-Trib resurrection. Jesus promises a blessing for those who read and heed the prophecy in Revelation; if His followers were not here, there would be no point to writing it.
DeleteAs for ISIS, Knights Templar and their Shia Islamic counterparts "Nizari Assassins" spread ISIS Statues aka "Black Virgin" Statues all over Asia and Europe; ISIS is the sister-wife of Osiris seen in Babylon "Gate of Osiris/On" and Babel "Gate of El"; El and Osiris are versions of Saturn seen in the Six Pointed Star of Saturn in the Flag of Israel. This is why ISIS is lead by Israeli Abu bakr al Baghdadi aka Simon Elliot.
Trust the bible Lance, Jesus wrote it the way He meant it
So then we all need to die now to escape the trib...what does your bible recommend, grape or cherry kool-aid?
DeleteAlso, Elmo (of tickle-me-elmo fame) is Suleiman the great reincarnated to bring the mahdi....ohhhh, ha ha ha, that tickles!!!
DeletePersonally, I've always found it interesting that God gave specific day counts for Jesus' first coming, as well as for when He comes at the end of the Trib.... but yet, when it comes to the Rapture, He barely whispers His hints about it... so quietly, in fact, that you'll miss them if you're not careful.
ReplyDeleteAn argument could be made that if the reader isn't filled with the Holy Spirit, they'd have no idea of any sort of event coming in the future, as it isn't directly stated in Scripture, but is revealed only by the Holy Spirit.
Could it be that the Rapture is supposed to be a secret? Could it be that there is a "dragon" lurking nearby, just waiting for an opportunity to throw a wrench into the works again?
I don't know.... just some things that make me go, "hhhhmmmmmmm....."
I'm posting this on multiple articles to try to get this out
ReplyDeleteMake sure to read this article about what you can see in the sky on Tabernacles.
Is the Rapture on the Eve of Tabernacles? , Sure Looks That Way
http://jesus-is-the-way.com/Dan9_27_2.html#AsYeSeeTheDayApproaching
I think you are on to something mksmith. And Lu, thank you for such an awesome response. Such a rich history and so touched by God, my brother. I do thank our Lord every moment for the discernment of the Holy Spirit.
ReplyDeleteand Howard whoever you are, to say that to look up and see Jesus is a death sentence for eternity is contradictory to the entire word of God Almighty and an anathema to those who belong to Him. And guess what...not even one of us will be plucked from His hand. Soon and very soon we are going home!
Unless, of course, you are one of those standing up against Him in the end. That will not be a good ending for sure.
DeleteI am thinking that we have a need to look for a sign or a date because this feeds the flesh. It is a high ... Like chocolate or caffeine or sugar or fat-laden foods. It is oh so hard to read the bible never mind studying it. It is hard to pray. It isn't easy to walk in love as we are commanded to do. It isn't easy to die to self/sin. It is so titillating to be looking for signs that lead to date-setting.
DeleteI like what Lu wrote about the rapture and in looking to Jesus. This is our Blessed Hope. Not looking for signs.
I snagged myself into the 9-23 sign even tho I basically saw it as a sign for Israel.
I believe the rapture can happen at any time. Watching for Jesus to come keeps us thinking about Him, helps to purify ourselves and walk in ways worthy of His name.
Wasn't Jesus talking to his Jewish apostles who were looking for Him to bring his kingdom to Earth?They didn't know anything about a rapture. I think the parable of the 10 virgins and other parables are not referring to the rapture. They are for the tribulation saints. We are in the age of age. We are already sealed by the Holy Spirit. Christ said on the cross 'It is finished'.
I totally agree with you. Well said and also I agree about the parable of the 10 virgins. It makes more sense to refer to the tribulation saints than the raptured saints.
DeleteI think we need to be very careful not to chew on each other. I really don't think anyone did anything horrible. They just were looking for their Savior as we all should. I enjoyed every minute of the journey and have no regrets. It is okay to look up and it is also okay to remind people to watch their feet while they do so. Let's not let our LORD find us back biting each other when HE returns.
ReplyDeleteHello Ferdinand,
DeleteAllow me to comment if I may seeing that this thread is due to my Rev 12 Rapture response. As I have posted, the tone was one of a call for introspection and accountability. As a former Teacher, one realizes that others follow one’s lead. As you mentioned that, ‘they just were looking for their Savior as we all should’. I just want to reiterate that such aspirations are not the issue here, at least for me. The issue is the alluding to the Rapture timing by way of new theology presented on top of that.
What was/is worse is that the timing of the Rapture has been continuously then projected on to the next timeline or Feast, etc. I quoted a statement of one family that was about to lose their home because why bother paying bills and so on. There are countless others. One of my points was/is that this is serious and when Saints actually believe such prognostications, most if not all of such Teachers then excuse themselves when the Rapture does not happen with a ‘don’t blame me if they believe me’. Sure, it is understood that we all stand on our own cognition and decision. No one is forcing us to believe such Rapture date-setting. My point is that I hate to be those Teachers that have to give an account of why some either sold everything or have abandoned the Faith.
Jesus held the Teachers of Israel accountable. He admonished Nicodemus, that although he was ‘the Teacher of Israel’ in a sense, he could not grasp the spiritual significance of the need for a ‘New Birth’, etc. Then in Hebrews 5:10-12, the writer states, ‘We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain, because you are dull of hearing. Although by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to reteach you the basic principles of God’s word. You need milk, not solid food!’ The point is that there is a time to address a serious concern in love and respect.
One reason why I did not sensationalize my research about the Rev 12 Sign, is because I knew/know that such studies involving what would appear to many within the Church as ‘Astrology’ would be a stumbling block to most and an offence. The Sign has now become like ‘meat sacrificed to Idols’ debate. Sure, I could have done book tours, ads, conferences, etc., but the Church is not ready for that unfortunately as we now come to find out. It has made many though look further into such a lost knowledge and many have come to Jesus and others drawn closer. So as Brad stated, the LORD is using this despite ourselves. LORD help us.
Ferdinand, I'm completely with you. I cannot see how e.g. Scott Clarke or Steve Sewell did (and do still) NOT elevate Christ while watching certain dates for His return. As we all know from the bible, God SETS dates in history for sure. And as long as we are time-bound creatures we do count days and dates. To me, this article spread some taste of bitterness here. Hebrews 12:15 I recommend watching some of Barry Scarbroughs videos to lose personal bitterness.
DeleteIf some "Christian" family doesn't pay bills because of some vague belief in a certain date I have to ask did they read or understand 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12 with regards to "walking disorderly" as some of the brethren did at Pauls time while they also thought 'oh well if the LORD returns so soon I don't have to work at all'. This is false of course. But what is not is to watch and dig scriptures to await him now daily. What ever can be false about dealing with and searching His word?
Okay, I'm a little confused. The first part of the article in question was well-deserved criticism of all the date setters putting out You Tube videos on the Rev. 12 sign. It's about time someone did that. Yet, at the end of the article was a section on the Feast of Pentecost and Jewish year 5778 as if you were saying that's when the Rapture will be? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. But that was a little bit strange.
ReplyDeleteLinda
Hi Linda,
DeleteAllow me to explain. That chart entitled, ‘The Age of the Gentiles’ was taken from a study by the same name on why I believe, based on my research so far, is that if any Moed or Feast of YHVH is when the Rapture is to take place, Pentecost is a more suitable fulfillment; that is all. I attached or borrowed just the chart from that study as a quick reference because as the current thinking is now that the Rapture timing is being cycled through all the Fall Feasts to see which will it land on as Greg rightly points out. There is now the unapologetic claim that in fact; the Feast of Trumpets is a month off. Again, it is just my understanding that I present in the midst of this all-out melt down we have gotten ourselves into. I thus shared a different perspective. I mentioned 5778 because as we all have come to appreciate, to a degree, numbers such as 5-777, we understand that 8 signifies a Biblical new beginning.
I for one am excited for this coming year 2018 because Israel has reached its 70-year anniversary. That is if one believes, Israel is ‘Israel’ and 70 is that generation of the Fig Tree Jesus spoke about being the countdown. That being said, it would thus naturally follow that perhaps, the Pentecost season of next year could see the time of the Gentiles end and ‘a new beginning’ as it were for the beginning of the 70th Week of Daniel… You see this is a case, where I, as a Teacher that suggests such timelines and possible Rapture high watch times, make sure I put all those big Question Marks. I for one have been looking for the Rapture since 1987 and cannot wait. Therefore, it is great to be on the lookout with such like-minded Brethren as Greg, Jeff, Daniel Matson, Brad, and others and on sites like this. However, as Ferdinand stated in a post, we also need to be grounded.
I believe that it is fine to study, enquire, seek and look at patterns, numbers for the possible Rapture timing. However, I do realize that it is not for everyone in the Body and as I have mentioned, it does and will stumble many, it has and that is my concern. I make every effort as you will read at the introduction of every one of my studies that it is only theory and only based on patterns and nothing more. The difference is that others that study the Rapture timing do emphatically suppose that such will be the time and date or hour, etc. I hope that clears it up a bit more for you and perhaps others. If you have any other questions, do let me know. I will more than happy to try to answer.
Are the feasts over yet?
ReplyDeleteLet's not be dogmatic about the image and the order of the Feasts. Hebrew reads the other way to the greek. Perhaps the answer has been in front of our eyes all along.
https://tinyurl.com/y7bmq5ua
We were reading the Menorah the wrong way.
Num 8:2 Speak unto Aaron, and say unto him, When thou lightest the lamps, the seven lamps shall give light over against the candlestick.
This doesn't render well in the KJV but in Hebrew writings is it more clear. It looks like the Menorah was lit from the most outward candlebrum inwards, towards the central shaft.
דַּבֵּר֙ אֶֽל־אַהֲרֹ֔ן וְאָמַרְתָּ֖ אֵלָ֑יו בְּהַעֲלֹֽתְךָ֙ אֶת־הַנֵּרֹ֔ת אֶל־מוּל֙ פְּנֵ֣י הַמְּנוֹרָ֔ה יָאִ֖ירוּ שִׁבְעַ֥ת הַנֵּרֽוֹת׃
Num 8:2 Speak to Aaron and say to him: When you kindle the lamps (of the menorah), towards the face [the central shaft] of the menorah shall the seven lamps light [i.e., shall their light (by manipulation of the wicks) be directed (so that people not say that He needs the menorah for its light)].
Chizkuni, Numbers 8:2:3
יאירו שבעת הנרות, “the seven lamps shall provide illumination. This would refer to the six lamps, three on either side of the center shaft of the candlestick. According to our author this would be the correct text in Rashi, but the scribes of Rashi’s manuscripts have omitted a word by mistake, i.e. the word האמצעי, “the centre shaft” (the lamp on it)
Rabbeinu Bahya, Bamidbar 8:2:5-8
אל מול פני המנורה יאירו שבעת הנרות, “toward the centre of the Menorah its seven lamps shall shine.” If you will examine the text closely you will note that the Torah should have written יאירו ששת הנרות, “the six lamps shall shine,”
_____________
Consider this: How does Israel come to true repentance (Yom Kippur with the scapegoat in the wilderness i.e. Mid Tribulation) until we (the Church / mankind) are tabernacling with the Lord (Tabernacles)? Rosh Hashanah is the coronation of the King and a New Year (New Millennium?), which doesn't happen until Yeshua is King of Israel.
If we take the Church out of the Feasts and put Israel in as centre, then we see that perhaps Tabernacles should come first, then Yom Kippur in Tribulation, then the coronation of the King Rosh Hashanah and then the Millennial Kingdom reign.
This possibly means Sukkot is next feast to be fulfilled. If this is so, should we be surprised? God always catches man by surprise. We should also remember that while the Feasts are of paramount importance to understanding God's plan of redemption, they are not necessarily the plan for the Church, but rather for Israel.
We are already fulfilled in Christ. The Church's heavenly Menorah is totally lit up and burning in Rev 4. The Holy Spirit was given on Pentecost but the centre of the candelabrum on the Menorah may not be lit as far as Israel is concerned and could instead represent when the OT saints and all of Israel are restored, then they will receive the Holy Spirit in the resurrection. This centre candle then represents the Millennial Kingdom, the Messiahs Shabbat and the final 1000 year reign with Christ on earth with Israel as the centerpiece. This seems to make more sense if the Menorah is lit from the outside inwards.
Love your vids and research Paulie....keep it up!
DeleteHello Mate!
DeleteHow are you Paul? Hope your time in Israel was awesome. Hey, who said it was dogmatic about the order of the Feasts? :) Yes, I realize the order of the lighting and that there are in fact 2 types of menorahs. There the one copied from Heaven before the Throne given to Moses to build; that which was illustrated taken from what was believed to be in the Holies. Then there is the Hanukah (Chanukah) menorah. I actually did a chart on that very same order back around 2010 entitle ‘Menorah Math’ that shows the 2 arrows converging on the Center Stem. The main point of the illustration was to depict mainly how regardless of which end one starts from, the end result will be the middle one. The order… yes is depicted in chronological order starting from Passover. This would suggest then that Laodicea could not have started the first Church Age, for example. I do realize that such visuals and depictions are limited in scope. It was to show the corresponding chronological matching historical age of each Church period, that is all.
I would wish and hope for nothing more than the Rapture to take place during one of these Fall Feasts. The issue or problem I have and others keep trying to address is that nowhere in Scripture does the LORD instruct or give us a direct correlation to the timing of the Rapture to any of the 7 Feasts, including Pentecost. The LORD does give and provide clues and types and shadows to help us understand and teach us from the Old Testament of what He has done, is doing and will do, that is all.
I do appreciate your take and understanding of what the type is seen in Revelation with them all lit. As a Libertarian, I listen to all points of view. However from Revelation 1-4, it is clear that the Bible tells us precisely who the ‘lights’ of this 7 candlestick menorah are…they are the 7 Churches of Asia. It appears that Jesus is the ‘midst’ or center one. Again as a type, didn’t He say, ‘I am the vine and you are the branches’? A menorah ‘picture’ no less? That being said, I am not expecting any and all to either accept or believe what I see or come to understand. I am learning too and as mentioned, I don’t’ have it all figured out. That is my point specific to the Rapture timing; we are not supposed to know.
If I may share. I am bewildered at the thought that many have asked…Why has the LORD in a sense ‘hidden’ the timing of the Rapture from the Church? Doesn’t Lucifer now with all his power and dominion the timing? Consider that Lucifer does not know all things yet can you image the things he heard and saw when he was the covering and ‘Anointed Cherub? The Bible even states that he did not know the real reason for Jesus’ mission and death on the Cross for if he did, he would not have do it… Imagine that? Yet he knows Scripture and the end of Revelation. However he does know his time is short. So in one supposition, the LORD is not telling the Church Body the Day and Hour of the Rapture perhaps as to not let Lucifer know either. It is keeping him guessing just as much as we are. I bet it is driving him nuts too and is disappointed, even depressed perhaps? :)
Lu, this isn't logic to me: a true child of God is OSAS so Satan simply CANNOT touch it by whatsoever means. If Satan would know rapture date and persecute the brethren in killing them physically (which he indeed does all over the globe if perhaps not in my country especially) then they STILL are in the first resurrection which is the same as rapture for the living. This is no argument that fits in here IMO. Blessings!
DeleteIsrael was awesome, you should have come Luis! Don't pack my wine and cheese just yet! The Feasts are the blueprint of Salvation and the prophetic model of Gods plan, we all know this. How are they are ordered is subject to interpretation and I think we have them wrong because we have tried to shoehorn the Church into that plan and the Church was a mystery. The foundation of the plan remains structured around Israel. All throughout the Bible man has been wrong, wrong and wrong again. I continue to believe that the sign is signifying the absolutely imminent rapture of the Church. The last fall feast is Tabernacles. There are some very compelling things which match up with tabernacles in the Bible that suggest it is the day of the rapture, even more so that Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Tabernacles is all about clouds and protection. The sign is 100% legitimate and the harpazo will happen at a moedim, not randomly. We are now coming up to the first full moon since the sign and 12 days after the sign which is Tabernacles. Rev 6:12 is bound to be a mid-monthly-feast full moon. The week is modeled exactly as the crucifixion week with the high sabbath on the Thursday. There is a Venus/Mars conjunction coming up on the same day as the full-moon and the shabbat-eve of Tabernacles, which is also the first planetary conjunction since the sign. I believe that we should treat what happens after the sign with extreme importance. Lets see what happens over Tabernacles...
DeleteSend some pics, if you don't mind. Amen Hermano to all you said and may it be so! But just in case after Sukkot, I hear you guys Down Under make some awesome sandwiches no? Vegemite? Hum...Can't wait to taste some of that. ;) (Paul and I have a friendly wager going on.) And I hear Australia has a growing wine industry now...can't compete with Napa and Sonoma County wine, Bro...But I'll try to grab some for you as we go up . ;)
DeleteLu
@ Lance M - Thank's mate! :-)
DeleteMeanwhile back to signs and stuff. Check this out:
https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/a6b3be14/files/uploaded/sukkot-warning.png
What's happening on the Feast of Tabernacles?
Delete-Blood Moons Tetrad pattern completes
-1st Planetary conjunction since Revelation 12 Sign
-Venus (Yeshua) & Mars (War) are aligning in Leo
-This morning star conjunction will not happen again in Leo for at least 300 years (I gave up searching)
-Full Moon of Sukkot
-First full moon since the sign
-First full moon of 5778
-12 days away from the Revelation 12 sign
To Lu Vega,
ReplyDeleteI must admit you are doing something right.
I say this because you are on the hot seat answering very very good questions from our brothers and sisters.
It feels like the evil one is trying sow discord amongst us and you are trying to not have that happen.
Be encouraged brother and sisters and all of us keep up the GOOD work.
Thank you Sir,
DeleteYes the Devil is alive and well on planet Earth and so is the work of his minions. He wants nothing more than to sow discord, steal, kill and murder as that is what happened in Las Vegas. We are in the intensification of the Spiritual Warfare. Galatians 6 is what should be in our hearts, minds and prayers for our nation and Church Body right now. I am reminded of the ancient Greek tactics of war when they used wooden shields. Before battle, they would sock them in water to saturate them so as to extinguish the fiery darts of the Enemy. May we be those Soldiers for Jesus that do that metaphorically as the days get darker; may we be like Gideon.
I would just like to point out a couple things from my viewpoint, the cheap seats. I did not go on line and make videos. I did not stake my personal and professional reputation on what I believed with all my heart was revelation from study in the Word of God. However, many honorable men and women did. Did they get everything right? Absolutely not. HOWEVER, I learned more about scripture from these men and women of God than I can begin to discuss. I have diligently studied Scripture for years and I was forced to dig deeper, look harder and question dogma I had been taught my whole life. I am a better person and a better Christian for it. I heard ONE PERSON say, this is it - the Rapture is on X Day. I heard everyone else say, oh, man it looks good, this could be it, but whatever it is it's important. This is a sign we have never seen before and it matters.
ReplyDeleteNow everyone who watched, longed for, followed and commented on those videos which WOKE LOTS OF PEOPLE UP TO THE SOON RETURN OF YESHUA is comfortable with just slinking away under criticism from those who should be supporting and lifting up and saying, well, it wasn't me. I wasn't the dope.
Maybe I just missed them, but I didn't see any grandstanding dopes out there. I saw beautiful people with their hearts absolutely on the line, pushing, praying, encouraging and digging more deeply into scripture than I've seen a group of men and women do in many years. I saw one after the other pressed and prodded for a guarantee of the Rapture with none forthcoming.
Should those same men and women have required an attestation from everyone who subscribed to their channels they would continue to go to work, pay their bills and feed their children? Should everyone who watched the videos have been made to swear a blood oath they would never say a number in conjunction with a Gregorian date and the word Rapture in the same sentence? Perhaps, because what I heard hundreds of times was, it could be, it looks good, I am excited, get excited - but only from one individual did I ever hear THE DAY IS X. Please, do not be revisionist historians and rewrite an absolutely incredible time in the Lord and magnificent sign from the Lord with accusations of malfeasance on the part of those who have given up time with family, time at work, vacation and everything else that was needed to minister to the Body of Christ. I never one time had a gun placed to my head and required to watch videos. I was never given mind altering drugs to convince me this was an absolute sign from the Creator of the Universe and it meant X. I was never told to sell or give away all my possessions and go and wait on a mountaintop. What I was told repeatedly, was "Stay in the Word", "Discern", "Pray and ask the Lord for Wisdom" and "I can only tell you what I am seeing, and I am excited." Never one time did I hear anyone say or even insinuate, "Thus sayeth the Lord." Never one time did I hear anyone say, "I have been before the throne of God and was anointed as a Prophet by the Almighty Elohim to convey the message of the Revelation 12 Sign as the Rapture of the Church." But, to hear the mockers and scoffers within the purported Body of Christ you would think that is exactly what occurred.
Thank you, Sherry!! You said all that is on my heart!
DeleteYes, thank you for your comment. God showed me the sign a few weeks before the eclipse. I've learned more about the bible in the past 2 months than I had in the previous 20 years! How encouraging it has been to me to have been taught by men who have clearly been seeking to know and glorify God. I'm more excited and encouraged now than ever as each day brings us closer!
DeleteHello Sherry, Rhonda (Awesome icon by the way) and Erin.
DeleteSherry, I actually agree with all that you said. The points you make, I think that if you have read my replies and on other threads and the theme of my research actually appreciates what this Rev 12 Sign has done. I for one am glad that such knowledge of the Sun ,Moon and the Stars was reintroduced, although somewhat in a shock treatment fashion now. This is what Brad stated as a foundation for this thread that it is the LORD who is in control so I totally understand your view from the ‘cheap seats’ lol. But I hope that mine and other’s concern who have stated some objections are not being lumped with the ‘Mockers and Scoffers’. First of all, the context of that verse is coming from unbelievers in Jesus that are outside the Body and are ridiculing the 2nd Coming. I for one am not ridiculing the Rapture or GOD’s People. But many are applying this ‘template’ to the Rapture and to those that question the wisdom of what clearly is now a free for all ‘Rapture Roulette’.
I am hurt a bit by it as I stated, at least in my objections that I am not mocking or scoffing. In love I was entreated to of the LORD to write it. And as I mentioned, who I am to be critical of anothers ministry or work. Realize that I am very sensitive an being one that receives hate mail, threats from the subject matter I present, beyond the Rapture research, I get it. But the purpose of the entreaty was that it came from a Teachers for the Teachers, and from one no less that was one of the first to present this sort of material. Do also realize that the Rev 12 ‘Club’ was very small at the beginning; you could have counted all of us in one hand and we know of each other’s work. I just saw it as a coming slow train wreck and I would not have been faithful to the LORD’s prompting to write the entreaty if I had not spoken up.
As I mentioned, yes, I am focusing on the negative aspects of the fallout as I have seen firsthand all those that are now trying to pick-up their ‘faith’ off the floor and carry on. I am concerned for the ‘weaker ones’ that perhaps may not have had the filtering and discernment you obviously have and wish all would have been seeing that from your perspective. I am thrilled that this scope of knowledge regarding the Sun, Moon and the Stars tied to Biblical prophecy has shaken up the Body, especially in America as it needed to be. So I just want to reiterate that Teachers have a higher standard that warrants tougher questions, that is all. I just don’t see how if a fellow Teacher in love asks or questions the wisdom at announcing the next Rapture date, in the ‘big picture’ is mocking or scoffing. And I wish nothing more than that the Sign was a wake-up call and that most if not all of those alive right now would be like Erin that because of it, has been drown closer to the LORD as countless thousands have also.
Sherry, I loved your comment as well. Thank you for sharing that.... excellently put!
DeleteLu, first off... thank you for taking so much time to respond to everyone. What an amazing example for us all to follow. I cannot imagine how much time you have taken to keep up with all the comments. God Bless you... I know reading this thread has been very edifying for me and surely many others. You are clearly not among the mockers and scoffers... that is not fair in the least. If they didn't know that already reading your gentle and spirit filled responses should make that clear. Much love to you brother and thanks again!
What I did not see, were those of the "big name", the multi-faceted ministries or the huge congregations saying with earnest heart - Ok, I see what you are telling us, but here is where I have concern. What if we considered x, y or z. What I saw was dismissal without even reading or reviewing what was being suggested. I saw mocking and ridicule from those who have committed to our Father to shepherd and love us. I did not feel loved. I felt like an errant child who had taken an extra cookie and been found with it on my face. I felt like a student who had come up with an alternative theory and been ridiculed, rather than questioned, encouraged and supported.
ReplyDeleteHere is what I did see for those who were following the REV 12 Watchmen. I saw people more excited about the potential of Christ return than I have seen in a very long time. I saw people who no longer warm pews because they are sick of the pablum passed out in many, many churches take up their sword and study more deeply. Once again, they had the courage and support to dig into their scriptures, for they were told God would reveal His Word and Heart to them as well. I saw men and women who have left the church, but never left the Lord feel a part of the Body of Christ again. I saw the dogma of No Man Knows the Day or the Hour torn to the shreds it should be in reference to the Rapture and rightly divided to the time it was given. I saw people who had been so beaten down by the "professionals" of the community for so long dare to stand up and have a voice and say, Astronomy is from God and I am taking it back. God created the heavens and earth. It is not astrology and it is not forbidden and I will not be told to sit down and shut up again. I saw people dare to say out loud to the Nicolaitans, don't tell me to look for Wars and Rumors of Wars when the scripture tells me I'm not to fear those, but tell me I am forbidden to look to the signs in the Sun, Moon and Stars when Scripture clearly tells me that is what they were created for. I saw people prayed for, ministered to, encouraged and daring to believe they, too, could understand scripture and minister to others.
I am proud of the REV 12 Watchmen! Is there anything they might have done more carefully, or cautioned more forcefully? Perhaps, in hindsight. But, there again, Monday morning quarterbacks are always the brilliant ones, aren't they. The Watchmen were in the field, they were in the battle, they will stay in the battle and they will STAY ON THE WALL. I am proud of each and every one of them. I have no disparagement for these Warriors for Christ. I honor them, I stand with them and I will go to war with them again on any given day. I am blessed they are my Brothers and Sisters.
I can tell you this unequivocally, for many of us who love our Lord Jesus Christ, Abba Father and the Ruach HaQuodesh with all our hearts, soul and mind - the Modern Day, Ninety-Five Theses has been figuratively nailed to the door of Modern Wittenberg. My Father's people again have the courage of their own convictions to read the scripture and discern, they have the courage to pray for each other, they have the courage to dare to be wrong when they are earnestly seeking and this group of warriors will not be scolded into submission by the self-appointed All Wise and All Knowing Learned Gentlemen of higher learning and "the cloth" again. We have tasted the Fruit of the Spirit, we have felt the fire of the Ruach in our Bellies and we will never be satisfied with less again.
Wow, yes!
DeleteAllow me to continue. Yes, that was disheartening of the Big Name Preachers and ministries that to this day, for the most part are adamant about their stance against any such ‘new revelation’ and ‘knowledge’ concerning the Rev 12 Sign. However, to be fair, such a similar attitude also was counter-acted against them that I did feel a little ashamed of our Rev 12 Community. However, I agree, they did not do their homework because in part, they are already pre-disposed but the message has gone out.
DeleteAs mentioned, I am glad that the Rev 12 Sign phenomenon has shaken up the pews and the Sheep have started to ask, hey why aren’t we studying such topics and revelation, etc. Good point and I hope it continues. I am convinced as I have told Brad and others that it is a prophetic shake-up going on. I believe the LORD has allowed this to occur because we are that much close to that Call…amazing. I agree, it has forced many to look into Scripture to be those noble Bereans, etc., awesome. So my point is that, yes there is much good that has come of this Sign episode here in the Last Days.
I love your zeal and how you see Astronomy as a piece that was ‘intentionally’ set aside…wow, you are my kind of woman! ;) So let me reiterate, if we had it to do all over from the beginning, I agree with what you rightly said, sure we could have done things differently. My issue is just that I wish the Rapture would not have been tagged to the Sign emphatically, even though you say and others that it was not but sure alluded to and presented that way, intentionally. And since then, we are grasping for the next ‘Feast’ or date. So, as a Teacher, all that I am saying is that yes, I took liberty to admonish the Teachers to be careful because as I mentioned, this ‘new’ revelation and knowledge cannot be handled by the weak ones among us and on one hand it does challenges the establishment within the Church on the other. That is why, if it where have been up to me, we should have done it more tactfully and not have introduced new theology, that in my humble opinion was and is not sound, that is all.
I hope you are not insinuating that I am one of those ‘arm chair quarterbacks’ or theologians. :0 As I replied to Ryan in his question, ‘Where have you been?’ I can only speak for myself and one of the reasons I wrote the entreaty was that I was there from the start, have been in the game and have been beat-up just as much. I stood by my fellow Teachers then as I do now but I want to encourage them to continue studying this amazing Sign for our generation but to have perspective and sensitivity, hey, I am a sensitive guy you know; it is the Latin in me. :)
I very much like your Luther analogy, wow, amazing and agree! Yes, us Rev 12 Teachers sure went up against the ‘clothed’ ones but Luther’s thesis was sound and based on Scripture. That is my point. The Rapture date-setting is just not, that is all so it is hard, in my perspective to see how we were set up to be shot down. I hope you do not see me as one of those ‘All Knowing Learned Gentlemen of higher learning. I am just a poor immigrant with dyslexia that barely could speak and write English from the back 40 of nowhere in California. So that being said, I want to encourage our Watchers, Teachers to continue but have discernment. No one is ‘scolding into submission’. I for one can have peace of mind that I obeyed the LORD’s prompting to write the entreaty. It is up to them all to receive it in love or not.
Sherry - Apostle Paul was happy to write about his rebuke of Peter when Peter 'erred'. The fact that there was no rebuttal to Pauls rebuke by Peter in any letters (on the contrary), meant he had humbly accepted Pauls comments on the matter.
DeleteLu has offered a gentle rebuke, and a biblical one at that. That is ok if its founded on biblical principles (which I believe it is). I am certain the watchman have it in their right to respond in their own manner, and we welcome that. We, however, should be careful in offering up a vehement response on their behalf, when that has not been afforded us.
Sherry Griffin -- AMEN !!!
DeletePREACH IT, Sister!!!
I take my stand on the Tower with the Watchmen on the front lines and I will never return to the cheap seats or the sanctimonious control of the Pharisees and the Sadducees. I mean no disrespect, for any brother and sister in the Lord, nor will I sanction disrespect. We need each other. We have seen the judgement beginning in America and it will not lessen. This is no time to fall back and it is certainly no time to chastise warriors who have laid their lives on the line because someone believes they didn't observe the proper protocol or wear the "uniform of the day".
ReplyDeleteBlessings - Sherry
Wow, Sherry! You go, girl!
DeleteGreat comment Sherry!! That's EXACTLY how I took these videos. I have no regret watching them.
DeleteSherry, hartaflame, Isaiah41, Jeff and Annebel,
DeleteI think I have not presented my stance or perspective perhaps in a more clear way, sorry for that. I see 2 main issues here that I delineate that perhaps are being cross-referenced and is contributing to the confusion of what my entreaty was and is really all about. One issue is the Rev 12 Sign itself and the other is the tagging of Rapture date-setting. I am all with you all on the quest to be warriors and run the gauntlet, if you will to pursue the LORD in this sort of knowledge and studies. Awesome, don’t give up, I am with you. However the other facet is that issue of tagging the Rapture timing to dates of not only the Rev 12 Sign itself but now to tag it in what now appears to be any and all sorts of dates… Here is what I am talking about.
1. Sep 23 – Sign of Rev 12: Could be the Rapture. Ok
2. Sep 24 – The Rapture might be this better day. Ok
3. Yom Kippur- The Rapture could be then on this Jubilee.. Oh, Ok
4. Tabernacles – The Rapture has to be on this day… What, are you sure?
5. The 8th Moedim – There is a Jubilee and it coincides with this year… Ohhh
6. You are all using the wrong calendar. It is on Feast of Trumpets but are a month off…Are you guys sure? What ever happened to the Rev 12 Sign? It is now all about the Rapture.
This is where we are at. This is just to paint the picture of how, in my humble estimation, the 2nd issue of the Rapture date-setting has eclipsed, no pun intended the Rev 12 Sign itself to a large degree and it has become the issue that every year around this time and Passover is recycled through.
I am disheartened a bit that I knew such an entreaty would not sit well with some. But allow me to use a parallel argument from Scripture that likewise did occur. If we were living in the days of the Church of Acts, would we be saying and expect same argument against such Teachers as the Apostle Paul when he publically confronted Peter to his face because of bad theology, etc. Would we have sided with Peter and said, ‘he is a Watchman and I’m not going to allow no Paul, to be critical of this Teacher. Who does Paul think he is? This is no time to fall back and it is certainly no time to chastise warriors who have laid their lives on the line because someone believes they didn't observe the proper protocol or wear the "uniform of the day". Warriors like Peter will not be scolded into submission by the self-appointed All Wise and All Knowing Learned Gentlemen of higher learning and "the cloth" again like this Paul guy…
Well, I think I have commented enough on this thread (thanks a lot Brad! lol) and I’ll just leave it as that. I do agree that at no time better than now is the need to maintain the Unity of the Spirit among our Rev 12 Community and support one another, despite our strong disagreements. The LORD Jesus is our ultimate Teacher, Warrior and Advocate. I for one am so glad and humbled to be part in one of the most amazing Signs for our generation and to have been part of one who introduced that to the Church; I am very humbled by it. The figuring out of when the Rapture will be, that I am not interesting in. May we continue to press forward, arm in arm despite setback, apparent or not.
Con Amor mis Hermanos y Hermanas!
Luis.
Lu, I have no problem with the concerns you express about allowing a potential Rapture to overwhelm the importance of The Sign. However, may I point out one of the confusing things that quite frankly "set me off" was in your own lengthy article on your website you at one point indicate the Rapture will more than likely be on Feast of Trumpets and then further in the article you point to Pentecost as a likely candidate. Perhaps I am being uncharitable, but it seems to me you did exactly what you fault others for doing, yet because it is written it is not egregious. Would it have been egregious if you had made a video? Is it conceivable that the Holy Spirit gave you understanding of the Revelation 12 sign 20 or 12 years ago and then gave these Watchmen the same understanding 5 or 6 years ago and they ran with it?
DeleteI believe there is plenty of blame always running around in the Christian community and because most try diligently to keep their hearts clean before the Lord they are quite easily cowed down and may even take own responsibility and fault greater than is wise. What I would genuinely love to see, if this truly is all about the Lord Jesus Christ and pointing to Him, is to hear someone say, "Proud of you guys, you did an amazing job. We missed some things, there were things we can learn from this - how to work together better and not sensationalize, but I declare myself for you and not against you for you are working for Christ and His Good Name. We surely don't want to damage any sheep while we're out it, so perhaps you might consider this. I think if this were done privately, rather than in a public forum we would not need to have this discussion, isn't that what Scripture commands us to do. Go Privately, take witnesses and we can't go public to the congregation because the INTERNET is not a congregation. We are airing our laundry before heathens and sinners.
Blessings - Sherry
Thanks Sherry for the reply.
DeleteYes, I ‘set people off’. I tend to do that with by research and perspectives. :) As to pointing to Pentecost, realize that I too love to speculate on the season and timing of the Rapture and a significant part of my research is related to that inquiry. Nothing is wrong necessarily with doing so but me point has been, and I confess, it is an unknowable and illusive quest. The difference is that I do not say or have said, ‘this is it, no sorry, this is it, no sorry this is it’. I think you do understand what I mean.
As mentioned, I am actually a very private guy and not one to go around to each of the Rev 12 websites or YouTubes and ‘correct’ them or insist on my interpretation. If I did that, one would be no different than the ‘Howards’ of the world, no disrespect to him. I posted only on my personal site as hundreds asked me to weigh in the matter as I was, hey live and let live, who am I to judge another’s research. I realize the same applies to me. I posted on 5 Doves because my YouTube was taken down a long while back and my site is constantly being attacked so I post there as a backup to my research and that I am also a long time contributor to the site.
I have not even come on this site to scold all the same but to encourage and uplift those other Rev 12 Teachers. Brad made this thread about it for discussion and thus only here have it directly discussed it among our Rev 12 family in response to all the questions, that is awesome, needed and encouraged. I have done so all along through all my studies and the list of Teachers I had listed, I totally agree, we needed to go to them in private and first. That is what I had done throughout the years. I have had contact with almost all of them, as they, not me contacted me to inquire of certain aspects of my Rev 12 research. There are some that actually never replied back, etc. It was at those moments only, that I just as I am doing now interjected my perspective, offered my opinion and shared my research with them. They did not agree in a lot of respects but that is fine with me and as JD Farag, states, ‘we just agree to disagree agreeably.’
Do also realize that for a lot of our Brethren, the ‘internet Church’, if there can be such a thing is the only ‘congregation’ people have for x reasons. I appreciate your candor and honest opinion as I take that to heart and I am not above reproach myself as Brad stated, we are to sharpen iron with iron but that means ‘sparks’ will fly off but hopefully for the good. I am excited what the LORD will do with all this and what He will have us focus on next and do in preparation for His soon calling. It is our Blessed Hope.
And Blessings to you.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteLu, You teach 1. "Jesus cleanses the 3rd Temple" Not quite Jesus returns with "Eyes of Flame" (Rev 19:12) to destroy the 3rd Temple, Satan's Seat and the Abomination of Desolation; Antichrist and False Prophet become the first guests for eternity in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone (Rev 19:20) with Satan chained in the Bottomless Pit during the Millennium (Rev 20:1-3)
Delete2. "Jesus was born on Feast of Trumpets 3 BC" No quite. Jesus was born 6 months after John the Baptist's Passover birth on Feast of Tabernacles (15 Ethanim; Tishrei is the Babylonian version) and Circumcised on the 8th Day of Tabernacles (22 Ethanim) in accordance with the Covenant He made as Melchisedek with Abraham and his descendants. Jesus was the New Covenant "Tabernacle". 3 BC? Not quite. Herod ordered the Slaughter of Innocents 2 and under and died soon after the Lunar Eclipse recorded by Josephus in Spring 4 BC; by then, Jesus as a "Young Child" (Mat 2KJV) was in Egypt, having been born Feast of Tabernacles 6 BC; if He was 6 months old, the term "Young Child" would not have been used; is 2 1/2, there would have been no need to send Jesus and his family into Egypt.
3. "Jesus is the Sun, the Servant Candle of the Menorah" Not quite. Shemesh means "Sun" and is the Servant Candle on the Hanukkah Menorah. Jesus was Nailed to one Tree between 2 Thieves, forming the 7 Branch Candlestick Moses was ordered to construct for the Tabernacle. 6 uplifted arms around the Savior brought an end to the Old Covenant, the 7th Covenant between God and Man.
4. "1260 days from cessation of Daily Sacrifices is the 2nd Coming" Not quite. The Great Tribulation lasts 1260 Days, 42 Months. "Mid Week" of Daniel 9:27 means what it says. The Covenant with Many lasts 7 Days; the Covenant is broken with the murder of God's final 2 Witnesses (Enoch and Elijah) in Jerusalem who lie in the streets of Spiritually, Sodom and Egypt (Rev 11:8KJV) 3 days until they rise as the 7th Trumpet heralds the resurrection of Jesus' followers at the Last Trumpet (1 Cor 15:52) Trump of God (1 Thess 4:16). Satanists rejoice over their dead bodies sending gifts to one another and Jesus returns to Trump the Feast.
I humbly suggest you read Scripture without "Private Interpretation" Time is short.
Wow...Sherry, you nailed it. I agree completely with you. I can't count the hundreds and hundreds and hours I've spent studying the Word after being woken up by the Watchfolk. The Scotties, the Alans, the Pauls, the Barrys, the Zeuses, and the others we've come to know and love have inspired me beyond measure and caused me to open the Word and stay in the Word. Hooray for them, every one. I hope they keep making video studies....they were courageous, they were humble, they collectively spent tens of thousands of hours making teachings for us, all while trying to understand and trying to rightly divide.....all the while the big-name pastors and other folks who thought they had reputations to protect were NOWHERE to be seen. I'm not giving up these types of studies and I hope none of our favorite watchmen quit now.......DONT QUIT NOW, Watchfolk...it's just getting good! Man we are close and I would have missed it right on by had it not been for the courageous brothers and sisters who jumped into the arena and risked it all. Amen Sherry....well said, indeed. Jeff from San Diego
ReplyDeleteSherry Griffin dear sister AMEN AMEN AMEN to every word of your comments! These were my exact feelings and thoughts when going through Lu's article but as non-native English speaking I couldn't have framed it the way you exactly put it. Bravo, thank you and may the LORD bless you and all yours! Keep going! Greetings from Germany :)
ReplyDeleteI second those Amens, Annabel. As Brother Barry said, "Guys, we are living in the Book of Revelation!" And in Chapter 12 no less. How awesome that our God has brought us safe thus far!
DeleteWatched the videos. Read the blog posts. I don't fault most of the Rev 12 community. I feel bad about the heat they are under now and pray that they will be strengthened in the Lord. Even for the ones who came right out to say the rapture must be on this or that day. I pray they will continue to watch with greater humility than before. Why? Because most of them really put their reputation at stake for sharing about the Rev 12 sign regardless of how flawed their arguments might have been. They literally have nothing to gain for doing what they did. (apart from a handful who might profit from book sale and so on). Thousands of hours of their lives have been dedicated to studying and making videos/writing blog posts to keep the church informed. As for those who quit jobs, sold houses because of the dates set, well, I would have thought what happened in past history would have stopped them from such folly. Oh well...I know of one date-setting Youtuber who actually said that he would continue doing what he was doing (his trade or job) until the day. In fact, I have not heard of any date-setters encouraging their followers/subscribers to quit living normal lives as responsible people. Sure, as Teachers of the Word, the bible did say that they will be held to greater accountability. As individuals, I think need to be accountable for the decisions we make for ourselves.
ReplyDeleteI read one comment some time back and I agree with it. Date-suggest is as bad as date-setting. Let's be people of honesty and integrity for the glory of the Lord. Saying things like " it looks highly possible that the rapture *could* be this day" and then try to wriggle out by saying 'I did not say it WILL be on that day' after the fact is like a dishonest salesman selling all the 'benefits' of a miracle drug and then pointing out the small print on the bottle "not supported by FDA" when confronted later on.
PJ dear friend, well said. After all, we've all (supposedly) grown up in a political correct brainwashers period of history when every kind of using your brain to think by yourself was broken loose from early childhood so that we're most likely used to blame everybody else but ourselves for not using our own brain to believe or not to believe a thing. ROFL!! What kind of "Christians" must be those using (and blaming) bottle small prints if they have the BIBLE to read! :) hahaha... Just imagine some Martin Luther following such discussions full of political correctness of today - oh my... He would not only turn over in his grave but surely be dumbfounded about such an amount of spiritual immaturity in an era of deepest scriptural knowledge. Blessings to you! :)
DeleteEveryone.... thank you for the vibrant discussion. This felt a bit like a Biblical Therapy Session! : ) We are all on the same team. Our arrows should be pointed at the enemy, not at our brethren. With that said, not any of us are above a humble rebuke now and then. Iron sharpens iron (Proverbs 27:17). We all get sharper and more dangerous to the enemy... but we must tread especially carefully when judging fellow brethren... we must remember that these are people for whom Christ died. This applies equally for everyone on all sides of this discussion. I love you all deeply and am so thankful for all my humble and sincere watchmen and watchwomen standing with me on this cold and windy wall!
ReplyDeleteI do think that the Lord shall come this year or next; I don’t see how we could last much longer :) .
ReplyDeleteI kind of want to share my testimony and ideas. He testimony for a warning, and the ideas for discussion :) . I started out proclaiming No One Knows the Day or Hour! (which I will refer to as NOKDOH, no one knows day or hour). I was pre trib etc., and I knew the general season of the end was here, thanks to Raptureready, Left Behind, etc.. Well, then I heard about the Rev. 12 alignment. So, I went to Unsealed, and learned so much! Problem is, I began to date set. As we approached I thought so much that it would happen. Ultimately, I think it was pride. I had figured it out, this is what would happen, and I knew it. Well, as God says, ‘Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall’. Luckily, he knocked some sense into me using the Word, and I was humbled a bit, as well as totally crushed. For then I knew it wouldn’t happen then; God had told me that His plan would be fulfilled, but not in the way I expected. So, a word of caution: do not become haughty; love the Lord, and put faith in Him, not a date.
So, I’ve came out a bit wiser (hopefully). I don’t proclaim NOKDOH, but at the same time, I don’t claim ‘Day and Hour on a Feast!’(DAHOF). I’m stuck in a tension between to two, and I think that’s how it’s supposed to be. What do you guys think?
Anyway, guys, for the calendar, use torahcalendar.com (kudos to Unsealed.org for putting the link on their site!). They are better than the rabbinical calendar, as they use Biblical principles to make a more accurate calendar. Their only fault is that they have year 6000 at 2021 :) .
I just wanted to share that, and inform. Thanks Lu, for the great article! I agree mostly :) .
I agree with you Beloved (and I believe bits and pieces from most every comment....well, except for one person/entity). I think it became a pride thing for me as well. I commented to one of the youtube sites I follow, and the site owner (named withheld to protect the innocent) said she felt that we are going through this to strip the pride from us to prepare us to stand in front of our God....wow....yeah, that makes sense. As Greg L said, it's almost like some (knowingly or unknowingly) wanted to be "the guy/girl" strutting around heaven saying "what has two thumbs and figured out the raptured?? This guy/girl!!!" as they point to themselves.
DeleteHowever, NO ONE doubts where we are on this prophetic journey, and understandably, we want to figure out how much longer we have to wait...at least I do. I think there is pride on both sides...."i'm smart enough to figure it out vs. I'm smart enough to know that you can't figure it out", and I think the truth is somewhere in between. The biblical pattern from Genesis on, is of a God that warns his people and alerts them before He intervenes:
Enoch - was given a one year warning before he was taken (book of Enoch)
Noah
Moses - God told him what he was to do and what would happen on multiple occasions
Joseph - able to interpret the 7 "fat" years vs the 7 "lean" years
Daniel
The disciples - Jesus told them all what was going to happen regardless of if they accepted it or not
Elijah/Elisha & the 50 prophets - they all knew when Elijah would be taken.
Countless others no doubt.
I don't see how we could ignore these patterns. I don't see how we can ignore Rev 3:3...if you will not watch, you will not know the day/hour I come. This admonition was given to the church of Sardis....the CHURCH of Sardis....not a Jewish synagogue, so it is applicable to all believers. With that being said, on 9/24 I told my wife my big concern now was going to be the multiple revisions that were probably going to unfold. I think that is the one of the points of Lu's article, and I agree to an extent. There are people out there that will have a new date every 3 days, and I think that is unfortunate. I think maybe we have been bought to the point where we have expended our resources and now we "look up" because we all know our redemption is so near. As stated by Sherry & Sheila, I have learned more and dug deeper than ever in my life, and I will continue to do so. I think the recommendation from Lu (sorry Lu if I put words in your mouth or misconstrue your intentions) is to do so with the intent of deepening our relationship with God....not to figure out the rapture. I fear, however, that I will walk that line like an inebriated frat boy until He comes for us. Blessings all!
Rev 1-7 are Warnings of the upcoming Great Tribulation; Jesus opens the "Book" written before Creation by removing the 7 Seals. These are restraints on the Beast being removed.
ReplyDeleteRev 8 describes the 1st 4 Trumpet Warnings; these Warnings are not God's Wrath. Followers of Jesus will if alive, go through these warnings.
Rev 9 describes the final 3 Trumpet Warnings aka Woes! The 5th Trumpet/1st Woe lasts 5 months (150 Days); the 6th Trumpet/2nd Woe! lasts 1 Yr, 1 Month, 1 Day and 1 Hour (391 Days) Satan is cast to Earth at the 5th Trumpet/1st Woe (Rev 9:11)
Rev 10 is a detailed description of the 7th Trumpet/3rd Woe! Body Resurrection believers in Jesus Christ will be taken, both dead and alive to Heaven ahead of God's Wrath at the sound of the Trumpet (1 Cor 15:52); this is the Trump of God (1 Thess 4:16-17).
Rev 11:2 12:6 and 13:5 all describe the same 1260 day, 42 month Great Tribulation each from a different perspective: Heaven, Signs in the Heavens viewed from the Earth and the Earth. This is a world ruled by Antichrist and False Prophet "Beast" system
Rev 14 describes the victory of Jesus Christ, rebellion against God at Armageddon, fall of Babylon and Resurrection of Saints.
Rev 15 is a description of God's Wrath; this is a prelude to Rev 16
Rev 16 is a description of 7 Vials of God's Wrath poured out on the Desolate (Earth Dwellers are people who have rejected God and taken the Mark of the Beast)
Rev 17 is a detailed description of MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. The CAPITALIZED spelling represents the SPIRITUAL "BABYLON" aka Beast. This is Gnosticism aka Witchcraft not the Roman Catholic Church.
Rev 18 is God's view of the fall of "Babylon". Bab=Gate + On=Saturn/Satan aka "Black Sun".
Rev 19 is a description of the Wedding of the Lamb, 2nd Coming, the doom of Satan chained in Bottomless Pit for the Millennium, Antichrist and False Prophet consigned for eternity to the Lake of Fire and Brimstone. There are no words used here to describe Armageddon; those rebelling against Jesus are destroyed instantly.
Rev 20 is a description of the Millennium, Gog and Magog, Great White Throne of Judgment, 2nd Death, and consignment of Satan and his followers to the Lake of Fire for eternity. Gog and Magog is the final rebellion against God and occurs 1000 years after Satan is chained in the Bottomless Pit, released and consigned to the Lake of Fire for Eternity with his followers.
Rev 21 is a description of New Jerusalem, New Heavens, New Earth. Eze 40-48 describes the Temple built in Heaven by God arriving after Gog and Magog; again, no words are used to describe man fighting God.
Rev 22 is a description of Eternal Paradise and a warning not to change anything in the Word of God.
Brad, Why do you teach Revelation is not Chronological?
ReplyDeleteWhy do you pick ONE line from chapters 11, 12, and 13 and infer those lines define the entire chapter? Are you sure you're reading from the bible and not an old Dungeons & Dragons manual?
DeleteLance, you and I should probably stay far away from each other :) at least on this side of heaven. I appreciate your expressions of discernment way too much. Then I have to pray all over again. Can't wait to meet you on the other side, though.
Delete= )
DeleteReady to meet you and all the others as well!
Thanks for the humor Lance regarding Marianne. Isn't there a site that would fit her better.
DeleteHave we forgotten Luke 21:25-28?
ReplyDeleteVerse 25-26 pretty much sum up the last two months... :)
28 "Now when these things begin to occur, stand tall and lift up your heads [in joy], because [suffering ends as] your redemption is drawing near.”
By the way...
DeleteIt's ironic (for me) in that it was Luis Vega's post on 5 doves over a year and a half ago that got me going on the Sign: at - http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/june2016/luisv612-1.htm
I haven't parted ways with it, on the contrary, we are yet that much closer. And again for me Luke 21:25-28 has nailed the last 2 months to the expectation of it's nearness.
Your mileage may vary...
Lwjackn!
DeleteWow, I feel honored. Please don’t get me wrong. I might have come across as scolding but I am trying to offer a balanced perspective as I tried to elaborate, there is the Sign and then the Rapture attributed to it. I guess I am guilty of wanting to preserve the purity, majesty, integrity and awesomeness of the Sign itself and for what it stood and stands, ALONE. I have never said to stop looking up or study it any further, on the contrary like all these amazing women here have an admirable zeal to pursue but I do say and will still say, lets pursue Jesus foremost above the Sign and above wanting to know what Feast the Rapture might happen. Is that fair enough?
Thanks for sharing and hope you are not disappointed in me. :)
Blessings to you.
Lu
Psalm 27
The Great Sign aside, there are hundreds of other things converging on this year of 2017.
DeleteWith the Great Sign, I have always held that it was for Israel, but that it mentions a Harpazo can not be denied. My expectation has always been a Feast of Trumpets time frame.
Paul's hints of "Last Trump" and "Twinkling of an Eye" lead me to that.
This year's (shall I say "coincidence" of) the Great Sign and Feast of Trumpets had me giddy. I still am! I think a lot of other people were/and are too...
I feel there is something to this 8th day scenario, but that is for another discussion. The cutting away of flesh, the spiritual circumcision can not be just another coincidence.
On the other hand, emotions and lives are a mine field, and I do not want to be found negligent when crossing perilous terrain.
Stumbling blocks or offenses are far from my intent or desire. We must be careful in these regards yes, but don't dismiss the masses part in it, nor dismiss the outright infiltration of the enemy either. They all (we all) had a part in it.
And still, we are at a critical time, and things that we have seen, the things that have happened, are not for *nothing*, though the natural can not make sense of it.
I can't say it enough... We are in the midst of Luke 21's call to stand up, lift up our heads, because He is about to show up.
Revelation 3:11 (to the church of Philadelphia) only serves to reinforce it.
Behold I come quickly. *HOLD FAST* to that which you have, so that no one may take your crown.
P.S.
Did I mention Luke 21? :D