3 Videos Watching Tabernacles

We are now about halfway through The Feast of Tabernacles and there are many watchman pointing to the end of this feast as an interesting time. If you noticed the AWESOME full moon earlier in the week that was your announcement! Here are 3 videos to watch which are all pointing to this same time.

Paul Dawson - Revelationchapter12.com
Shemini Atzeret: The 8th Day Curveball (24 Minutes)

Return of the King
Midnight Oct. 12: The Sign of the King's Return! (9 Minutes)

Adam Fink - Parable of the Vineyard
Sukkot 2017 Harvest Moon l High Watch: Feast of Tabernacles (7 Minutes)

Comments

  1. UnknownOctober 7, 2017 at 7:48 AM

    Maybe it is rapture today.. As Jesus went secretly to attend the feast when his time has fully come and in the book of John it say that about the middle of the feast Jesus appear.

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  2. UnknownOctober 7, 2017 at 7:51 AM

    Pastor Sandy Armstrong from soldiers of christ church, talking to scotty also.. Which God revealed to him that the head and the body of Christ has the same birthday.. So Jesus not possible to born towards the end of the feast to tabernacle with man..

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    Replies
    1. NoraOctober 7, 2017 at 9:29 AM

      I listened to several sermons of Pastor Sandy. He openly admits that he is against the doctrine of “the eternally secure salvation of the believer in Christ” (once saved always saved). He tried to debunk *eternal security* several times during his sermons. He went as far as stating that because the Gentile Church has been grafted in the *oil tree of Israel*, "the Lord will kick us out if we won’t behave”. Also, the Church is less dear to the Lord than Israel according to what I’ve heard from him (in his explanations misusing Scripture in my opinion.) I couldn’t disagree more with all of that so, I stopped listening to him. (The very last drop for me was when he claimed that the Lord visited him and said to him that believers who aren’t “rapture-ready” will be left behind. Aka "rapture-ready" by being ready via one's own performance.)

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    2. NoraOctober 7, 2017 at 9:48 AM



      Don’t get me wrong though, I didn’t write this for argument’s sake! When someone is clearly opposed to the teaching of our eternal security in Christ (which is the basis of our faith in Christ Jesus imo, regarding our assurance in His completed and perfect sacrifice on the cross), it is a big red alert for me, that’s the reason of my comment. I’m wary of the teachings of people who are holding such views (described above.)

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    3. AnonymousOctober 7, 2017 at 11:48 AM

      Nora, “once saved, always saved” is unscriptural: the entire cannon of Scripture speaks that saving faith is active – it apprehends God’s word, lives by it, and is transformed by it. Is it any surprise that “I AM” designed things so that His children live via present-tense dependence upon Him?! I am the bread of life; I am the way, the truth, and the life; I am the resurrection and the life… (John 6:48; 14:6; 11:25)

      Let us re-read Jesus’ words in John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. (emphasis added). Do you see it? The verb “believes” is present-tense and, therefore, active in this Scripture which is commonly cited (falsely!) to support the “Once saved, always saved” false teaching. Here is another Scripture commonly cited to support it:

      Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes [present tense and, therefore, active!] Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. (John 5:24, emphasis added)

      Now, in John 15 Jesus clearly explains that this passing from death into life by grace through faith in Christ is not irreversible: I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away… If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. (John 15:1-2, 6). Of course, we all know such fall from grace is NOT God’s doing; it is a consequence of our inaction (or action).

      This is apostasy, which Jesus also speaks of in Matt. 7:18-23, Luke 6:46-49, Rev. 3:1-6, etc. This wretched spiritual state is one of four possibilities for us, explained in His Parable of the Sower (Matt. 13:1-23, specifically vv. 5-6, 20-21). I encourage you to do as the Bereans did in Acts 17:11 and study the Scripture passages above yourself; please do NOT take my word (or anyone else’s) on Biblical doctrine. Praise God, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him. (1 John 2:27)

      Before closing this, I’ll draw your attention to the fact that a large portion of the NT is written specifically to encourage believers to remain firm in our faith so that we do not fall from this grace in which we stand. Consider two of Peter’s exhortations in his second epistle:

      Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you. (2 Peter 1:10-11)

      …be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. (2 Peter 3:17b-18)

      Your sister in Christ, deanna
      (Having been taught “OSAS” as a Baptist, the Lord led me to study this out last year then write this series: “Exposing the ‘Once Saved, Always Saved’ False Teaching.” You can copy and paste this for links to the whole series:
      https://thelordiswithus.com/exposing-the-once-saved-always-saved-false-teaching/

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    4. BelovedOctober 7, 2017 at 12:18 PM

      I disagree for one simple reason: and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
      John 10:28 NASB
      Even we can't separate ourselves from Jesus. We are held right in His hand. Besides, what kind of gift would salvation be if could be taken away if we didn't behave? That would be a salvation by works; we are only saved if we do good works. It doesn't matter if we revived it by faith if we must keep it by works.

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    5. AnnabelOctober 7, 2017 at 1:16 PM

      Dear Beloved in fact EVERYTHING in our lives is GODs work ALONE. You have to consider Philippians 2:13 in this context. Some people quote verse 12 to prove what you say that 'we are only saved if we do good works' but this would then also be "works" of men and shows they don't apply verse 13 correct. EVERYTHING that we "do good" as Gods children is in fact GODs work, not ours.

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    6. NoraOctober 7, 2017 at 1:37 PM

      The Lord is very clear regarding *eternal security*. Just a sample of Bible verses for ponderation:

      “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.” (Colossians 2:13-14)

      “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.” (Ephes 1:13-14)

      “Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.” (2 Cor 1:21-22)

      Could the Lord be even clearer?

      “But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.” (Hebrwes 10:12-14)

      “All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” (John 6:37)
      “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!” (2 Corinthians 5:17)

      As the late Jack Kelley put it: “For a born again believer, God has separated the sin from the sinner. God sees our sins as a holdover from the old us and does not consider them to be part of the new us.”

      “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” (2 Corinthians 5:21)

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    7. Sheila B.October 7, 2017 at 1:40 PM

      I thank God we were not left with what I call the yo-yo plan of Salvation. My husband was brought up in that teaching and he struggled most of his adult life never having the peace of being quite good enough or having done enough good works. I fought that tooth and nail for a long time. Paul was the Apostle sent to the gentiles and I love Romans 8:38-39. Our Father does chastise those who are His just as we do our children and will let us suffer the consequences of our actions to get us back to where we need to be but He doesn't throw us away. I agree with Beloved and Nora. What kind of GIFT would that be? A gift with strings attached is no gift and it was all finished by Him at the Cross. The only question is whether or not one is truly resting on that finished work, for it is by His righteousness that we are saved and not of ourselves. That's why we must come as little children because they can truly understand that kind of agape love. Maranatha ya'll. We are on the cusp!

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    8. NoraOctober 7, 2017 at 1:56 PM

      Here's an excellent teaching of Robert Breaker on this very subject, titled "Why Not To Worry Once You're Saved":

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScPQeCSwBqk

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    9. AnonymousOctober 7, 2017 at 2:55 PM

      Sisters, which of you reread and studied the Scriptures I introduced about apostasy? Jesus taught about it and warned against it, as did the apostles. It is not milk but solid food for the mature to chew on and digest. I also was a Calvinist (God IS sovereign!), but He lovingly showed me through the years of digging into His Word that He highly values free will because He is LOVE. God does not force Himself upon anyone; apostasy is a REAL danger. Apostates are not the tares, but are the second soil in Jesus’ Parable of the four soils. In love I challenge all four of you dear sisters in Christ to grow deeper in the Lord on this matter. The series I provided the link to contains many of the Scriptures on apostasy; I encourage you to dig into them as I did. Our understanding of Christ should always be growing!
      deanna

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    10. Sheila B.October 7, 2017 at 3:28 PM

      Deanna, The Lord bless you and thank you for sharing your concern. I did not meet Him in any church or denominational setting, Calvinism or otherwise. I actually met Him on a rooftop. Wasn't about to jump or anything, but I was searching and that was as high as I could get at the time. Did that almost nightly for three years before He answered me. He placed a KJV Bible in the middle of my street for me. I spent day and night in the Word for months on end. That was over 20 years ago. I have since amassed a library of at least a thousand commentaries on every view possible, reading every one of them and nothing rang truer than He finished it at the Cross. I have accepted that with all of the peace that it brings. I no longer condemn myself or fear separation from Him because my flesh wars with the Holy Spirit that resides in me. Sometimes I do that which I would not and I don't do that which I ought, but my Father is still my Father and my Savior still my Savior. I have no more studying to do in that regard, only in the regard of a closer walk with Him and trying to die daily to myself. That is me and where I am. You are where you are and by His grace alone, we are on the same Road. See you soon, Sister.

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    11. AnonymousOctober 7, 2017 at 3:57 PM

      And very, very soon it shall be, dear Sisters!! Let us continue keeping our eyes on Jesus and encouraging one another these final
      days/minutes/seconds our Bridegroom tarries (more accurately, appears to be tarrying)!

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    12. mksmithOctober 7, 2017 at 5:21 PM

      Amen, Sheila B.!!

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    13. NoraOctober 7, 2017 at 5:38 PM

      I think Barry Scarbrough's warning concerning legalism (his newest video) fits here too:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAc1WTqfYyw

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    14. UnknownOctober 7, 2017 at 6:54 PM

      Deanna,

      Thank you for having the courage to share your comment. I agree with Nora and Sheila that Jesus would never retract his gift of salvation but the versus you supplied clearly requires a minimal of our ability to believe. After reading your comments, I did not get the impression you had a works mentality but rather you were informing us our behavior (fruits) measure how strong our belief in Jesus. Thanks again for providing a very valid perspective an adding to this community.

      Blessings
      -Ally

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    15. AnonymousOctober 7, 2017 at 8:27 PM

      Amen Ally, and I praise God for moving you to be bold as well; thank you.

      Perhaps the following will help all whom Lord has reading this.

      This is the key point to apprehend: God has graciously given us both a secure position in Christ AND the free will to abandon it. God will NEVER abandon us in Christ, and of course it’s not about our working to be saved. I assumed everyone reading this wonderful site of Brad’s knew that already. Please forgive me for assuming that; I shouldn’t have. ��

      But moving on, faith without works (of the Holy Spirit through our abiding branches) is dead. We must DO the will of the Father to enter the Kingdom (PLEASE see Matt. 7:21-27; Luke 8:21; Luke 11:28). Praying those reading this actually read and understand Jesus’ words.

      Moving on to these last critical days, I am now being led to boldly share some of our Lord’s exhortations from Revelation:

      To the one who is victorious and DOES MY WILL TO THE END, I will give authority over the nations— that one “will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery”—just as I have received authority from my Father. (Rev. 2:26-27 quoting Psalm 2:9, emphasis added)

      Since you have KEPT MY COMMAND TO ENDURE PATIENTLY, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth. (Rev. 3:10 emphasis added) This key Scripture is Jesus’ promise of keeping His overcomers out from (Greek: ek, Strong’s G1537) the Great Tribulation. Note His implication therein to the churches that those Christians alive at the time of His rapture who do NOT endure patiently will have one more opportunity to be tested along with all others who do not yet live according to the Word: the Jews and the Gentiles.

      This also is important, addressing a misunderstanding Nora expressed a few days or weeks back: these Christians are the five foolish virgins in our Lord’s Parable of the Ten Virgins in Matt. 25 whom the bridegroom excludes from the wedding banquet. They are virgins (born again) with lamps (ditto) awaiting the bridegroom (Christ) alongside five wise virgins, but they lack sufficient oil reserves (infilling with the Holy Spirit during times of submission to Christ). Despite having been born again, they are not sufficiently God-reliant to be saved when He comes for His Bride. When they knock at the door He tells them, Truly, truly, I don’t know you (v. 12).

      Having chosen NOT to die to self and rely on God sufficiently, they foolishly set themselves up to experience the Great Tribulation, for the Bridegroom came like a thief in the night (they were not prepared as they should have been – see Christ’s warning in Rev. 3:3 and contrast it with Paul’s encouragement in 1 Thess. 5:1-6). If they finally repent during the Great Tribulation and refuse the mark of the beast, they WILL be saved along with a great multitude of other Tribulation saints from all nations, but they must literally die to self then as martyrs…

      Praise God for His Word, His love, and for equipping us with everything we need to accomplish His will. To Him be ALL the glory, honor, praise, and dominion. Amen. Love you all in Christ!! See you very, very soon!!

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    16. AnonymousOctober 7, 2017 at 8:33 PM

      So sorry, that last long one was from me, deanna

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    17. UnknownOctober 7, 2017 at 9:08 PM

      This comment has been removed by the author.

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    18. UnknownOctober 7, 2017 at 11:17 PM

      Your welcome Deanna. Hope to see you all soon in Heaven. Keep up the great work brothers and sisters an thanks again to all for the information made available to people like me.
      Blessings

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    19. Sheila B.October 7, 2017 at 11:32 PM

      Little story: I was at Wal-mart yesterday. Met a woman in line. She looked to be a bit older than me, a bit closer to 70 and it was obvious that her health was not the best and she probably stretched her dollars. She was buying quite a lot of food. She looked back at my small pile apologetically and remarked how she wished she could get by with so little but that it wasn't possible with so many children. How many do you have? I asked. She smiled and said 24 right now.
      My jaw dropped. I learned that through fostering and adoption, she had cared for or raised over 240 children, half of them special needs. She had devoted her whole adult life to these kids. The cashier knew her and substantiated her story. I left the store feeling extremely humbled by this woman, who had given the credit to the Lord for this accomplishment. I have never even come close to that kind of commitment and driving home, I started to feel really inadequate before the Lord and asked "What have I ever really done for you, Lord? Compared to that woman, I've got nada. Myself was trying to come up with something
      ...anything, but all my works seemed so small and then He spoke to me...
      "Please don't try to come up with a list of what you have done for me, rather try to list what I have done for you."
      I will need an eternity to do that but it reminded me even more so that whatever fruit we do sow is all His fruit. His righteousness and not ours. Just another example of how we do not die once to ourselves, but daily. I only know Christ and Him crucified. Who can know that, then choose to abandon it? Once we are called to that, we are His and nothing can separate us from His love. Rom: 35-39. In my understanding, perhaps those 5 foolish virgins were content with the idea of salvation itself and not hungry enough for the Author of it. I just want to get to Him the very moment, in the very twinkling of an eye, that He will say, "Come!" Yes, once I was saved, I was always saved because He is my goal. Love to all who are longing for His appearing.


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    20. Sheila B.October 7, 2017 at 11:36 PM

      Romans 8: 35-39. Sorry, it's late.

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    21. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 2:14 AM

      Deanna (and Ally),

      "Jesus would never retract his gift of salvation but the versus you supplied clearly requires a minimal of our ability to believe."

      Even *saving faith* is a gift of God out of His mercy. None of it is our merit!

      "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

      Also: If someone is trying to maintain his/her own salvation by his/her own efforts and performance, they are putting their own works into the mix, adding their own "sacrifice" to the Lord's. You can't be your own co-savor with the Lord Jesus Christ!!! (I'll be blunt: adding a co-savior to the Lord Jesus is the category of heresy; be it Mary or one's own self!) You either accept on your behalf His finished and perfect work on the cross, His blood atonement that is His very own or you don't, there's no middle ground.

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    22. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 2:39 AM

      This comment has been removed by the author.

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    23. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 2:43 AM

      Sheila B.,

      Amen to Romans 8:35-39! We can't pluck ourselves out of His hand, we can't become *un-born again* and we definitely can't un-seal His seal of ownership on us through His Holy Spirit! (And honestly: who in their right minds would want to do that!?) All opposite notions to that is simply a lie!

      “All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” (John 6:37)

      He is our Good Shepard for a reason! End of story.

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    24. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 3:22 AM

      If anyone’s interested, here’s some pretty good studies of Jack Kelley on the topic of *union and fellowship* concerning the born again believer’s relationship with the Lord. He covered this topic many times. (The same aspects are scrutinized as in Robert Breaker’s video I linked.) Understanding the topic of *union and fellowship* helps greatly to understand the context of some of the Bible verses as well which are often used (obviously out of context) to deny the eternal security of our salvation.

      https://gracethrufaith.com/?s=union+fellowship

      Also, the topic of eternal security:

      https://gracethrufaith.com/topical-studies/eternal-security/

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    25. AnnabelOctober 8, 2017 at 4:06 AM

      Deanna please allow my interjection: Did you EVER read what Martin Luther had to tell his agnostic friend Erasmus of Rotterdam about "free will" around 500 years ago? The Bondage of Will If you havent yet, there's perhaps time to read and understand: There is NO free will in spiritual issues for man tied to Satans will before Jesus made him free. That's the reason why brethren like Erwin Lutzer gave preaching lessons to their students on a graveyard. Because in fact NO man can and will react from sth like "free will" to the gospel and respond to God with faith in Jesus by his own will and might. Man is DEAD in trespasses and sin. Dead is dead. If God will not intervene there's NOTHING to expect from a dead person to come alive from "free will". Blessings to you!

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    26. AnnabelOctober 8, 2017 at 4:36 AM

      Sheila B. dear sister: if This woman at Walmart has only fed this huge amount of children with literal bread brought at the supermarket then she will one day hear from God "why didn't you feed them with the bread of LIFE" that they might have ETERNAL life? These kind of "works" or "good deeds" are far from impressing God if they don't contain the preaching of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 13:3 now put "salvation by Jesus through faith by grace" instead of "love" which is the equivalent term. Blessings to you!

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    27. AnonymousOctober 8, 2017 at 5:18 AM

      Would love to accept both views in the correct sense.
      Because both views can be taken mistakenly.

      Would stay peaceful in the eternal salvation offered by my sweet Lord.
      Would love to obey my Lord in all possible ways not to gain His approval but since I love Him.

      (Not sister deanna)

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    28. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 5:24 AM


      One last thought. No offense but calling the *teaching* of how you should maintain your own salvation by your own efforts and performance “solid food” is one of the most outrageously unscriptural things I’ve ever heard!

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    29. AnonymousOctober 8, 2017 at 5:54 AM

      A farmer can till the soil, sow seeds, water the seedling, add fertiliser etc. etc. but can the farmer say with absolute certainty that the seeds will sprout and the plants will grow wonderfully and yield a bountiful harvest. No.

      Because GROWTH COMES ONLY FROM GOD.
      Only God can make the seed sprout, the seedling to grow and yield fruit.

      But since it is God 's work to make the seed sprout, and make the seedling grow and yield fruit will God ask the farmer not to sow seeds, or water and fertilise them ? No

      God wants the farmer to diligently do his job.

      Similarly it is God alone who causes spiritual growth in us.
      But God wants us to sow to the Spirit and not to the flesh etc. etc.

      But we are not saved by our works. We are saved only by Christ 's work on the cross.

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    30. AnonymousOctober 8, 2017 at 5:55 AM

      The above is not sister deanna

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    31. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 5:57 AM

      Anonymous,

      Yes, submitting to the Lord and the intention of pleasing Him should be out of our love for Him not out of effort to maintain our own salvation and out of fear of losing it! When a sheep wanders away (as sheep are prone to do that) the Good Shepard comes after him/her, rescues him/her when needed, bounding up their wounds when needed, then taking them into His arms and bringing them back to the flock. Knowing that they will probably wander away again after some time and then He repeats these actions because that’s what a good shepard does. It’s not the sheep’s responsibility to keep themselves in safe and eligible pastures it is the shepard’s job. You can’t fall out the Lord’s saving grace, in the minute you believe in Him and accept His free gift of redemption, you are sealed by His Holy Spirit and this bond is unbreakable! And it is a gift for a reason! If you have to maintain something by your works aka you have to work for it it’s no longer a gift. At the Bema Seat Judgment of Christ, when NOT our person but the fruits of our works will be tested there will be people who’ll be included in the following category: “If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” (1 Corinthians 3:15) Even if all the fruits of our works will be burned up, we remain saved because that is the solid ground of the Lord’s perfect and finished work at the cross on our behalf. If we accepted it, we belong to Him forever. As for submitting to the Lord: as somebody said, the safest place is within the will of the Lord! I add that it is also the most blessed place! Only He knows what’s the best for us and only He could give us the most fulfilling life here on earth and in eternity, that’s my experience in my daily walk with Him and I believe that with all my heart!

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    32. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 5:59 AM

      p.s.: This is for Anonymous at 5:18 AM.

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    33. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 6:14 AM

      “For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” (Ephesians 2:10)

      “…for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.” (Philippians 2:13)

      When we submit to Him, letting Him to take the wheel and let His Holy Spirit guide us and prompt us, we could walk in the good works that He Himself prepared for us, the credit goes to Him. I believe so that these are the fruits that will remain as *gold and precious stones* and not burn as *wood and hay* at the Bema Seat Judgment.

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    34. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 6:23 AM

      (A bit more in detail) I believe so that *good works* are those which were done at His prompt, in His strength and out of love for Him.

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    35. AnonymousOctober 8, 2017 at 6:39 AM

      Yes sister Nora you are absolutely right. Good works are those done at God's prompt, in His strength and out of love for Him. Love you sister.

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    36. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 7:36 AM

      A bit of addition to the topic of *saving faith* which is also the gift of the Lord (Ephesians 2:8-9). I think these two links below cover it pretty well:

      https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/faith-to-believe/

      https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/do-i-have-enough-faith/

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    37. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 7:49 AM

      Thanks for your kind words Anonymous (at 6:39 AM)! *sending a virtual hug* :--)

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    38. UnknownOctober 8, 2017 at 8:31 AM

      I have been saved for 21 years an never have phantom the possible of becoming separated from Jesus but unfortunately I know it exists. There should be no debate as this very conversation exist. We have 1 group that believes once saved always saved and the other group who believes we can fall away. More interesting is both groups have verses to support their own theory. I would like to offer a few **ROOT** possibilities.

      **Trials didn't allow them to complete there choice faithfully or lacking belief**
      The parable of the sower (Matthew 13:18-23 also provides insight on the person who did not quite actually root them selves in the word.

      **False salvation**
      Parable of wheat and tares (Matthew 13:24-30) Both received the same opportunity to grow. one would be found true an the other to be false. Remember the tare has a desire to eat an grow just like many people who claim to be saved. They lie to save their marriage, lie to get out of jail, lie to get hand-outs, lie to encourage a second chance just to burn them again.

      **They faked it**
      1 John 2:19
      They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

      I ment fruits not works.
      Galatians 5:19-26 helps us sort out the truth. Everyone can claim to be saved but are you really? Matthew 7:18-20.

      God bless...

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    39. Greg L.October 8, 2017 at 9:15 AM

      My two shekels on eternal security in case anyone cares:

      http://www.alittlestrength.com/articles/2017/1704-cold-feet.htm

      Also here, in an article which topically pertains to the partial Rapture theory, but also deals extensively with the issue of eternal security:

      http://www.alittlestrength.com/articles/2016/1603-rupture.htm

      Off hand, I'd say that it's a bit late in the game to be quibbling over the fundamentals in my humble opinion. But then again, you gotta give Old Scratch credit:

      He never rests.

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    40. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 9:30 AM

      “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” (1 John 2:19)

      This verse is about people who have never been born again, not about people who “lost their salvation”! Remember what Jesus tells some people who approach Him after His Second Coming? “I've never knew you!” In the original text the word for *knowing* has a very personal, intimate meaning and it points to our relationship with Him through His Holy Spirit! If the Lord indwelt someone at some point for a period of time by His Holy Spirit in the way He indwells born again believers who belong to Him, how could He say to them that He never knew them? Never ever knew them… Of course He’s not talking to people who were saved “at some point”. The ones He never knew (in that deep personal way) were never ever saved and sealed by His Holy Spirit indwelling them. I believe with all my heart that it is His point! I think I presented all I could why I believe so that it’s simply NOT possible to lose our salvation in Christ. I think so, if a person can’t be convinced by God’s Word and the Holy Spirit about the truth of the believer’s eternal security in Christ, nothing will convince them.

      Delete
    41. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 9:33 AM

      Greg L.,

      Thank you for sharing your articles!

      Delete
    42. Sheila B.October 8, 2017 at 10:25 AM

      Hey Sister Nora, as I said in an earlier post I have fought this battle with some of my loved ones for years. I know every time I pray, I am always led to give thanks for the GIFT of faith as well as the GIFT of prayer as part of the GIFT of salvation. (And that dear woman did say that she relies upon the Lord. I do pray that He is in all she does with those kids.) And Greg, you are right about old Scratch. He is at it full bore. As we come down to the wire in this race, I want mine looking up and not down with that nagging doubt that they might have failed somewhere after all. In mho again, I believe that the knowledge of eternal security for ALL who are in Him acts as a pride killer. If they have truly asked Him into their hearts, the shabbily dressed homeless guy in the back pew is just as secure in Him as the perfectly groomed, suited up, every hair in place and sings like an angel guy sitting in the front pew. And by His wonderful grace alone through the gift of faith, we are all on the same road to Home. Maranatha!

      Delete
    43. AnnabelOctober 8, 2017 at 10:27 AM

      @Greg L. Dear brother perhaps this is just the right time to deal with sth so much vital like the OSAS blessed hope and eternal security in Christ because perhaps there are still some 5 foolish virgins around that have to buy some oil very urgently now before the door is closed??! It's not too late yet to turn around from self-betrayal easy believism and just let go, jump into the loving arms of Jesus without any self-merit in salvation! :)

      @Nora: I'm completely with you about OSAS (ask brother Spurgeon!) but you must be exhausted right now --- ;-) much love! Looking forward to meeting you soon...

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    44. UnknownOctober 8, 2017 at 10:28 AM

      I agree with Greg on this one....seems like someone always comes along and kicks the ant pile over. It is definitely way late in the game, but regardless, there are still new believers out there. I would suggest a review of Greg’s articles above to clarify the issue.
      Couple of points/questions.
      1. What have you done today to save yourself (or keep yourself saved...please share).
      2. Are you claiming to be more powerful than God in that you can undo the works of Christ...that’s a bold claim.
      3. As Jack Graham pointed out. If OSAS isn’t true, then we should should all go to the guillotine at conversion...to ensure our salvation.

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    45. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 12:12 PM

      Annabel and Sheila B., thank you for all your kindness toward me! *many hugs* :--)

      Delete
    46. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 12:17 PM

      Lance M.,

      "As Jack Graham pointed out. If OSAS isn’t true, then we should should all go to the guillotine at conversion...to ensure our salvation." This is SO spot on!!! The criminal comes to mind who was hanging on the cross next to Jesus and got saved right there because he believed in Him. He is a very fitting example when we start to ponder on this topic.

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    47. AnonymousOctober 8, 2017 at 12:28 PM

      Note the division among you! “I’m with Greg!” “I’m with Jack Kelley!” Yeshua is Teacher (see Matt. 23:10), not Greg, Jack Kelley, this linked teacher, that linked teacher, or any other person. We are saved/sanctified to the extent that we know, believe, and act upon God’s Word. I praise God for revealing the darkness within multiple hearts here!
      Receive these words of Yeshua to this last-days Laodicean church from Rev. 3:19-22 (Laodicea means peoples’ opinions!): “19‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. 20‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. 21‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”

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    48. UnknownOctober 8, 2017 at 1:18 PM

      So Anon, are we not supposed to have discernment? To say that we disagree does not mean that we are not brothers/sisters. We are discussing an important issue, and yes, I did state who I AGREED with....not who I depend on for my salvation.

      Prov 27:6 "Better wounds from a friend than kisses from an enemy".

      We are merely expressing our belief that salvation comes from Christ and Christ alone. Works based theology can be a dangerous doctrine that produces a frustrated individual that chases off more than it saves.

      Rev 3:21...great verse "He who overcomes"....we overcome by Christ and Him alone.
      And yes, I fully admit that I have darkness in my heart. On this side of eternity, I always will...and here's a little secret.....so will you. Also, is the message of Christ and Christ alone such "darkness". I disagree with your statement that "we are saved/sanctified to the EXTENT that we know, believe, and ACT upon God's Word." We are saved through Christ's sacrifice on the cross and our admission of the need for Christ....that's it, nothing else. Even our admission doesn't come from us, it is the Spirit that convicts us of our need. On our own, we are lost.

      Nora pointed out the perfect example that destroys works based theology. The thief on the cross was nailed to the cross. His hands and feet were immobile. He couldn't raise his hands in praise (or in works). He could barely breathe, so he couldn't even sing praise. All he could do was ask Jesus to "remember" him when He entered paradise. What did Jesus say to the 5 "unwise" virgins? "Depart from me, I never KNEW you"....not "depart from me you didn't do enough works." Jesus "knows" us when, we come to him in our broken states, and we ask him (through the Spirit) to save us. We accept his sacrificial death in our place because we know, in our own capacity, we are flawed....we are, in effect, saying remember me (because we lay our sins, our works, and our lives down at His feet).

      Blessings to you for a great day!

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    49. AnonymousOctober 8, 2017 at 2:49 PM

      Hebrews 5:11-6:6New American Standard Bible (NASB)

      11 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

      The Peril of Falling Away

      6 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do, if God permits. 4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

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    50. NoraOctober 8, 2017 at 4:37 PM

      Lance M.,

      AMEN brother! We have the anchor of our trust in Christ. *Good works prepared by the Lord for us* gives the credit to Him and helps to direct our focus on Him as well.

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    51. AnonymousOctober 8, 2017 at 4:56 PM

      Continuing with the next verses in Hebrews 6:7-8 (NASB)
      7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

      Now, link that with our Lord’s words in John 15:1-2,6 (NASB)
      1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. ...6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

      Do you see that this passage in Hebrews draws upon John 15:6? Note that one must be part of the Vine to begin with, i.e. these branches our Father burns WERE once in Christ, but did not ABIDE there.

      Back to Hebrews...
      Hebrews 3:12-14 (NASB) “The Peril of Unbelief”
      12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

      Note that IF; it appears in multiple NT Scriptures.

      Here it is in
      Colossians 1:22-23 (NASB)
      22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation...

      There are many others for the true Bereans to discover. I’ll close with one from the great Epistle to the Romans, in which Paul uses Israel’s apostasy to warm us of the very same possibility for we who are in Christ Jesus:

      Romans 11:20-23 (NASB)
      20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if [there’s God’s conditional “if” again] you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

      So, what was the Lord’s point in all this? I see many (and hopefully you do too!), but will express only this:

      OSAS is FALSE doctrine used by Satan to lull believers onto the slippery slope of apostasy. We MUST be diligent to remain in the Word which saves/sanctifies us, to remain submitted to the Lover of our souls, Christ Jesus, above Whom there is NO other.

      Be glorified, Lord Jesus!

      Love you, my brothers and sisters! Looking forward to meeting you in the clouds VERY, VERY soon!

      Your sister in Christ, deanna


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    52. Sheila B.October 8, 2017 at 8:41 PM

      Deanna, I really do expect to see you there as it's clear you love our Lord, but it sort of sounds like you might not really expect to see us there, what with our "dark hearts" and all. This is why I've always seen the knowledge of a secure salvation in Christ and Him crucified, as a pride killer and we know that does have to die. As for the Hebrews 6 verses you quoted, I have always understood that to refer to those Jews who'd come to investigate Christianity, then returned to the sacrificial laws of Judaism. They dabbled and went back to their more visible hands on burnt offerings, crucifying the Son of God afresh. They tasted, but did not ingest, as many since have done. They were those He NEVER knew to begin with, as was pointed out.

      And Lance M., as far as being last on the list, I dunno, sir...Jesus liked to hang out with what some saw as the rabble rousers. Some rough ol "and maybe a little dense" fishermen, some rather troubled gals, and one of my favorites, little tree-climbing Zacchaeus.

      But they believed in their hearts and they just wanted to be close to Him.
      And like that thief on the Cross you recalled for us, that's all He required. We who are brothers and sisters in the faith will be with Him very shortly. Hallelujah King Yeshua! Hallelujah LORD of hosts! Love that song.

      Delete
    53. Greg L.October 8, 2017 at 9:53 PM

      Annabel wrote:

      "@Greg L. Dear brother perhaps this is just the right time to deal with sth so much vital like the OSAS blessed hope and eternal security in Christ because perhaps there are still some 5 foolish virgins around that have to buy some oil very urgently now before the door is closed??!"

      Of course I understand your point, that there are always new sheep coming into the fold, and so on. I was thinking more along the lines of mature believers who seem to be ready to start yet another doctrinal food fight at the drop of a hat, which does little more than create dissension and distracts people from more important things.

      If certain folks are convinced they have to maintain some vaguely defined standard of behavior in order to earn and/or keep their salvation, I know from hard experience there's little point arguing with them about it. When people get locked into a doctrinal rut, no one will argue them out of it. It just doesn't work that way.

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    54. UnknownOctober 8, 2017 at 10:00 PM

      Sheila B.
      I read Hebrews 6 exactly the same. The church is full of people that know the the truth of the gospel. They are the ones who "fall away" when, knowing the truth, they refuse to act on it by accepting Christ's free gift.

      The fruit that one bears is a result of salvation...not a condition of salvation. Therefore, I am fully secure in my salvation through Christ alone.

      Thanks for the encouragement by the way...nice to hear a hopeful message!!

      Blessings

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    55. AnonymousOctober 8, 2017 at 11:12 PM

      So Shelia and Lance, you both addressed only one of the Scriptures addressing apostasy. Why do you stop there? God calls us to search out such matters! He who has ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

      PS Shelia: I for one did not see you as having a dark heart, but if the Holy Spirit convicts us on a matter, we should respond with joy, for the old man has been crucified with Christ and we have been made new in Christ!

      PS Lance: of course the fruit one bears is the result of salvation, not a condition of it. It appears that you have reacted out of your old Adam instead of truly reading and understanding what the Lord has led me to write here. As the Hebrews 5-6 verse actually addressed, we already know that foundational truth - we’re on to solid food that takes some chewing and digesting here. God blesses us when we choose to put that old man off and put our new true self in Christ on! Dig INTO His Word as the Spirit is calling ALL to do for His glory.

      Delete
    56. AnonymousOctober 8, 2017 at 11:20 PM

      Sorry, that was me, deanna

      Delete
    57. Sheila B.October 9, 2017 at 12:15 AM

      Omigosh, I hope Howard's not morphing again.

      On a lighter note, I bought some really big sweet lemons today. Just wanted them around. Now I am calling it a night and I'm going to sleep knowing I am safe in my Savior. Maybe this will be the week my friends! Sweet dreams and blessings Brothers and Sisters!

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    58. NoraOctober 9, 2017 at 3:15 AM

      Yes, I agree with the sisters and brothers before, the Book of Hebrews was written as a warning against turning to legalism. Choosing to go back to Judaism istead of the Gospel of Grace and Mercy. The Lord Himself said several times through the Bible (Old Testament included) the He wants mercy! He is also just, He paid in full on the cross for all our sins. (Past present future. "It is finished." John 19:30)

      Delete
    59. NoraOctober 9, 2017 at 3:15 AM

      (*instead of...)

      Delete
    60. AnonymousOctober 9, 2017 at 7:26 AM

      Dear brothers and sisters in Christ. Please prayerfully examine why you are choosing not to reconsider all the Scriptures shared above that address apostasy (John 15:1-2,6, Romans 11:20-23, 2 Peter 2, Matthew 13:1-23, esp vv 5-6, 20-21, Matt 7:18-23, Luke 6:46-49, Rev 3:1-6, etc.)

      In Christ’s love, I continue to encourage all those who have chosen to write their opinions here BEFORE digging into God’s Word on this matter to go before the Lord about it. God gives grace to us when we humble ourselves before Him! I grieve when my dear siblings choose pride instead of humility. Love you! deanna

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    61. UnknownOctober 9, 2017 at 8:18 AM

      We have given you the responses, but you choose to ignore them. The very verses you cite show how you've misinterpreted them. Rom 11:20 spells it very plainly.
      Well; because of UNBELIEF they were broken off, and thou standest by FAITH. Be not HIGHMINDED, but fear:

      Luke 18:10-14
      10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

      I can imagine that the Pharisee would approach the Bema seat as follows:

      Oh Lord, behold all they servant's magnificent works. It is a joy for the Lord to be in the presence of so great a servant. Freely taste from they servants fruit as thy servant has produced a bountiful crop out of thy servants own doing. Would that thou prepare a high pedestal for thy servant so that the Lord may bask in thy servants glory all the days to come.

      = )

      We'll agree to disagree, and your are welcome to the last word.

      God bless!

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    62. AnonymousOctober 9, 2017 at 9:18 AM

      I am appreciative of your willingness to grow together in the Lord, dear brother. Of course salvation is not by works. (You and a handful of others are misunderstanding what I’ve shared - this is building on the foundation of salvation by grace through faith.) It is best to wrestle through the Scriptures ourselves, but I will again offer the URL to a 5-part series the Lord led me to write on this matter (just copy and paste)
      https://thelordiswithus.com/exposing-the-once-saved-always-saved-false-teaching/

      Again, I thank you for your humility and consideration. Love in Christ our Life, deanna

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    63. AnnabelOctober 9, 2017 at 10:40 AM

      @Greg L. Sorry I only saw your post above late now: I understand what you mean about the "mature" believers in OSAS doctrine. But I humbly and respectfully disagree once again because in fact EVERY "babe" in Christ KNOWS that it is saved IF this is truly the case. Even if just shortly saved they KNOW whom they believed because they posess the inner testimony of the Holy Spirit 2 Timothy 1:12 / 2 Corinthians 1:22 + 5:5 / Ephesians 1:14. EVERY true child of God firmly knows that it is eternally saved even as a immature "babe" 1 John 2:13 ("ginosko" G1097 = know = same word as in John 14:9 or 16:3). The word for "know" in the saying of the LORD about the foolish virgins is another: "eido" G1492 which rather means "perceive, discern, notice".

      This might be what is the difference to those who claim to follow Jesus but only out of OWN "free will" and eagerly strive to "buy" their oil by their OWN efforts and good deeds but never succeed. You know them in the end... 1 John 2:19 The problem about them is: as they don't "know" Jesus through the indwelling Holy Spirit they just CANNOT make a valid statement about OSAS doctrine because they NEVER experienced it like any "babe" in Christ has from the first moment of salvation. Blessings to you!

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    64. AnonymousOctober 9, 2017 at 11:29 AM

      I agree with you dear Annabel. 1 John 2:19 indeed is about the tares who never abided in Christ our Vine.

      Now if I may, I direct your attention to 2 Peter 2 (especially 2 Peter 2:20-22); THESE are apostates, those who were on the Vine but did not REMAIN/ABIDE in Him, and so the Father cut them off (John 15:2), and they were picked up, thrown into the fire and burned (John 15:6). The apostates are NOT the tares of Matt. 13:25-30, but the “rocky soil” which “hear[d] the word and at once received it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.” (Matt. 13:20-21).

      I believe the apostates are also the members of the sleeping church of Sardis who soiled their white garment of Christ’s righteousness, and so will beblotted out of the book of life (Rev.3:2-5). I believe they are also the foolish virgins of Matt. 25:1-13 whom Christ sadly tells, “I don’t know you.” (as opposed to His saying “I never knew you” to the ones who never did the will of His Father in heaven in Matt. 7:21-23 onwards to Matt. 7:26-27.)
      Blessings! deanna

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    65. AnnabelOctober 9, 2017 at 12:24 PM

      Dear Deanna, you see the "abiding in Him" as you mention is also NOT a work done by the believer but by GOD (Philippians 2:13). This is what you have to understand first. EVERYTHING is Gods work, not ours. John 10:27-29 / Romans 8:38-39. You KNOW it without any (!!) doubt when you are truly saved.

      Delete
    66. AnonymousOctober 9, 2017 at 1:34 PM

      Annabel, what’s do you understand of John 15:1-2,6 then? What do you understand of 2 Peter 2:17-22? Why didn’t God graciously keep them? Why did He allow the rocky soil to receive the seed (word) and grow for a bit but not graciously allow it to endure persecutions (Matt. 13:5-6 & Matt. 13:20-22)? For that matter, why all the conditional “ifs” (e.g. Colossians 1:22-23, Romans 11:20-24 etc.)? Why encourage us at all in our faith?

      He’s relational, dear one! He loves us, and wants us to deny self and follow Him, relying continually on His saving/sanctifying omnipotent Word by faith!

      Blessings! Maranatha! - deanna

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    67. AnnabelOctober 9, 2017 at 2:35 PM

      Deanna I'm not sure if we ever come across... I see your points but you don't understand mine. Gods omnipotence and sovereignty in the bible is as follows: Proverbs 16:4 and Psalm 100:3 I'm done. Blessings.

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    68. AnonymousOctober 9, 2017 at 2:57 PM

      Dear Annabel, in love I continue on as exhorted to do so (Col. 1:28-28, 3:16; 2 Tim. 4:2-5, etc.). I smile recalling that I just read somewhere this past week that Martin Luther wanted to rip the Book of James out of his Bible (or was it John Calvin?)! Love you Sis who is bold enough to point us to YouTube sites showing effects of Planet X!

      Delete
    69. AnonymousOctober 9, 2017 at 2:58 PM

      Sorry, that was me, deanna

      Delete
    70. NoraOctober 9, 2017 at 6:56 PM

      Concerning the branches of the vine....

      "What happens to unfruitful branches? Jesus said the branches that don’t bear fruit are “lifted up” (Jn 15:2). They are not cut off – that is a bad translation that would’ve made no sense to a Mediterranean listener! A viticulturalist would never throw away a branch for that would be like amputating part of the vine. (If you’re thinking of suckers, see my note in the comments below.) Unfruitful branches are lifted out of the dirt and re-dressed so they can be nourished by the sun. Sticking with that metaphor, the reason why some Christians are barren is that they’re facedown in the dirt and not looking at the Son. They’re busy, distracted, stressed, and have wandered from their protos agape, their primary love."

      The source of that quote:

      https://escapetoreality.org/2011/06/05/what-happens-to-unfruitful-branches/

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    71. NoraOctober 9, 2017 at 7:08 PM

      Another study about the meaning of *abiding in the vine* :

      https://escapetoreality.org/2011/06/08/john-15v6_abide-in-the-vine/

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    72. UnknownOctober 9, 2017 at 11:47 PM

      Praise God, Nora, I love it (and so does He)! Now we’re being Bereans together!

      Looking at the Strong’s Definitions for that word in John 15:2, we have
      “αἴρω aírō, ah'-ee-ro; a primary root; to lift up; by implication, to take up or away; figuratively, to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind), specially, to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare H5375) to expiate sin:—away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).”

      So that one could be interpreted either way.

      BUT now we continue with John 15:6!

      Regardless of which of the ancient texts you prefer, the translations all yield the same information, and it does NOT support your thesis.

      In the KJV it is, “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”

      Here is the BibleHub.com listing of multiple translations for comparison http://biblehub.com/john/15-6.htm

      I am grateful you were willing to receive the grace to dig in a bit! Please forgive me if this upsets you, but I lovingly note that God did NOT force you to comply, for He highly values our love for Him.
      You had a choice in the matter of whether or not to obey His leading.

      Know that I empathize with you as you explore the possibility that what you’ve been taught was truth actually isn’t. I believe nearly all Christians (Western, at least) in our generation have MUCH to UNLEARN, and it’s difficult, but has a most glorious payoff! Love you!

      PS I encourage all to lighten up on the rather heavy reliance on teachers other than the Holy Spirit. Only He has it ALL correct. : )

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    73. NoraOctober 10, 2017 at 1:19 AM

      Deanna,

      The second study I linked addressed what you brought up, sufficiently. You not seem to consider the Bible verses themselves many of us shared here, which are clearly and without a doubt about our eternal security in Christ which is also the core of the entire Gospel! You’ve said it before that in your opinion the doctrine of *eternal security* in Christ is false and the explanations I’ve heard from you so far mirror that. (What I’ve seen are aspects of what some call “old covenant mindset/mentality” and characteristics of some of the branches of the *Hebrew roots movement* which want to bring people back under the kind of legalism against which the Epistle to the Galatians and the Book of Hebrews were written.)

      Delete
    74. Sheila B.October 10, 2017 at 1:27 AM

      Deanna, I have a question, Pilgrim's Progress style if you will.
      Can you give me an example of someone (unnamed of course) whom you personally knew that was surely saved and secure in Christ (and you somehow personally knew this about them by their obviously good fruits) and then you saw this person just abandon their salvation? Just threw it away one day. What did it look like?
      Did they commit a sin, or sins ...quit a particular church...suffer a terrible loss they couldn't understand and maybe got angry with God. Or maybe all their good fruits just weren't quite as obvious as before? Just wondering how you knew they had abandoned so great a salvation that you knew they were secure in before they changed their mind and heart, and also how you knew that they just weren't, like, you know, walking through one of those shadowy valleys, or enduring a hard trial of some sort. Maybe you saw that they were not walking exactly right with Jesus, but how could you know that Jesus was not walking exactly right with them? Have you personally witnessed this? Now remember, you had to know they were truly saved prior to THEIR abandonment of what previously had to have been their most treasured asset. (Otherwise, they weren't really saved). Ok, that's it. Bless you much.

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    75. Sheila B.October 10, 2017 at 1:31 AM

      Hey Nora. Are you as bad a night owl as me or we in different time zones? Love and blessings, and hopefully we really are down to hours now. Exciting and praying for so many at same time.

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    76. NoraOctober 10, 2017 at 1:50 AM

      Hello Sheila, :--)

      I'm from Europe, right now it's morning here but I'm also a night owl! LOL

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    77. NoraOctober 10, 2017 at 2:03 AM

      Deanna,

      I wouldn’t like to keep debating something (probably endlessly) we’re not agreeing about. As I mentioned earlier, in the end it’s the Holy Spirit –indeed- who convinces people of the truth presented in God's Word and who teaches us to rightly dividing it. If He can’t convince someone, nothing will. So, I leave it in His hands.

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    78. Sheila B.October 10, 2017 at 7:59 AM

      Definitely different time zones, Nora. Can't imagine what it will soon be like to be outside of time altogether.
      I asked that question above after praying about some things last night because I, myself, have never witnessed anyone do that. The people that I've known who I trusted were truly saved would literally take a bullet before denying his Name as so many before us have. Even a group a children in Iraq in the hands of ISIS chose beheading rather than deny Him. And when I read Foxe's Book of Martyrs many years back, that was so very convincing of the fact that nothing can remove a true believer from His hand. While we can and do stumble and fall, He, by his hand, remains our greatest treasure and that is where my adamancy stems from. Maranatha!

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    79. UnknownOctober 10, 2017 at 8:46 AM

      Hello sisters.

      Shelia, yes, sorrowfully, one of my dear loved ones did receive the seed, bore the fruit of the Holy Spirit as in Gal. 6:22-23, and then renounced Christ (gay marriage and witchcraft). Heart-breaking, for Hebrews 6:4-6 & 10:26-31, John 15:6 and 2 Peter 2:20-21 describe her fate.
      Please note Hebrews is written to fellow believers (the word “brothers” is used often): “See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily...” (Heb. 3:12-13)

      Nora, you still are choosing to ignore John 15:6. I note that earlier you had written Philippians 2:13, but you chose to ignore the first part of that key exhortation which puts this matter in a nutshell:

      CONTINUE TO WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING, FOR IT IS GOD WHO WORKS IN YOU TO WILL AND TO ACT ACCORDING TO HIS GOOD PURPOSE.

      Again, the whole cannon of Scripture reveals God is Love. All men have already been saved via Jesus Christ, but God has given us free will to choose or reject it, both at our initial salvation and throughout it (see 1 Peter 1:9 for example of this) as we “work it out.”

      Sadly, our old Adams want to be comfortable and hold to “sacred cows.” Jeremiah 1:10 is a key mandate given me: “uproot and tear down, destroy and overthrow, to build and to plant.” The Lord gave me Isaiah 62:10 as a mandate. (I quit a practicing medicine to minister to Him, that He could use me as a fine leather glove on His hand. That requires continual death to self. When we seek Truth more than self-preservation, we are delivered.

      I praise God for His work in us here, and I also thank Him for giving us the free will to receive or resist such indescribable riches. I encourage you to know who God has made you in Christ, resist the devil, and let the Holy Spirit be your Teacher. Putting men in His place (frankly, it’s idolatry, isn’t it?) is how these false doctrines became strongholds in the first place...

      Praise God, His Word is divine power to demolish those strongholds. So continue in as the Bereans did. Love you! Our Bridegroom is almost here!

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    80. NoraOctober 10, 2017 at 10:22 AM

      Deanna,

      "....FOR IT IS GOD WHO WORKS IN YOU TO WILL AND TO ACT ACCORDING TO HIS GOOD PURPOSE."

      Exactly! It is Him, Him and Him! That's what I've been talking about. I've accepted His perfect and finished sacrifice, His blood atonement for all the sins of my life and He sealed me with His Holy Spirit forever, I am His. Now, I'm secure in His love, nothing can separate me from Him. Not even my own sinful flesh because the Lord Himself made a spiritual circumcision on me:

      “In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ” (Colossians 2:11)

      This is the simple and that wonderful truth of the Gospel! Moreover, I’m His child now. It's all about Him never about me! I accepted His free gift of salvation. I did the only work God the Father requires: I believe in Christ who He sent. (John 6:29) I'm experiencing His provision and loving care every day of my life. There’s nothing to fear. I, like others who accepted Him, abide in Him, because He is the One who makes us abide:

      "Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. (2 Cor. 1:21-22)."

      "Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them." (Hebrews 7:25)

      In the New Covenant everything is Christ-centered, not me-centered. He saves, He seals, He justifies and He sanctifies us.

      Let me put there God’s will concerning this whole matter one more time:

      “And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:35-40)

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    81. NoraOctober 10, 2017 at 10:22 AM

      Part. 2.

      The thing is: it seems to me as if we were talking two different languages. You don’t seem to understand my point about the Lord’s grace, mercy, love and His finished sacrifice on the cross. However, I’m aware that the Holy Spirit could make a person understand all of that, that’s why I said that from now on I leave it in His hands. That’s why I politely ask you again to not continue debate this topic with me! We both presented our cases well enough. I’d like to be clear: I’ll never ever give up my faith, my trust in the believer’s eternal security in Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior! When we accept His free gift of salvation He saves us, it’s a done deal, He is Just, there are no loopholes! Also, His Holy Spirit will help us along the way, He is our Helper. I think in all my previous comments concerning this conversation, I said everything. I refreshed my memory of His awesome promises and that’s great, praise the Lord! Please accept the fact that you can’t say anything that will change my mind about all of that! Let us be in peace with each other! As I said, I’m not gonna persuade you, (which I wouldn’t do, I’m only human, it’s the task of the Holy Spirit to convince). I’m not gonna try to force my point of view on you, I’d like to ask you the same! Please respect the choices and wishes of those of us who believe that we’re eternally saved in Christ, instead of trying to “convert” us to *anti-eternal security*! I take the topic of *eternal security* seriously, that’s why I presented my case but I won’t go into an endless debate. I’m coming here to have fellowship with the brothers and sisters, peacefully, encouraging each other, and having a good, refreshing time! I wouldn’t like to argue continuously with anyone here and that’s why this is my last input in this conversation with you on this matter.

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    82. NoraOctober 10, 2017 at 10:27 AM

      Sheila B.,

      I'm looking forward to meet all of us soon, Sis! :--)

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    83. UnknownOctober 10, 2017 at 11:10 AM

      Dear Nora, we rejoice that you know and apprehend such truths! Hallelujah! We apprehend them also!
      Colossians 1:28-29 and 2 Tim 4:2-4 are two of my God-given mandates, and He empowers me in His love to encourage you: Now keep growing! Recognize the false doctrine as revealed here and renounce it. Because you are leading precious souls astray. It is now your responsibility to apprehend and obey the word, dear sister. See Ezekiel 33:1-6 - God will hold you accountable for the blood of those you lead astray when you assure them they need not work out their salvation with fear and trembling.

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    84. UnknownOctober 10, 2017 at 11:18 AM

      Please scroll down for Annabel’s link to Spurgeon’s excellent sermon on the matter. But apprehend ALL he says, not just what you want to hear. The Lord blesses us when we seek out and heed truth. Love you my dear sister; press INTO truth, let it demolish the deception, the strongholds.

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    85. UnknownOctober 10, 2017 at 11:23 AM

      Sorry, Annabel’s Spurgeon link may be on the adjoining day’s comment string. And please know I empathize with you - denying self, searching out His truth, and trusting Christ to work His Word in us IS our work.

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    86. Sheila B.October 10, 2017 at 11:24 AM

      Amen to that, Nora. What a day of rejoicing that will be!

      Deanna: I was so not aware that God wears fine leather gloves. Could not find a Scriptural basis for that, but I did read Gal. 2:20-21 again and I just have to leave any further contending up to the Lord, Himself. You are way too high up there for this ol' country bumpkin, but happy trails to you and whoever "we" is. Hmmm....

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    87. UnknownOctober 10, 2017 at 11:51 AM

      Dear Shelia, no, as an ex-surgeon, the fine leather glove on His hand was a metaphor for Jesus’s words throughout the Gospel of John saying essentially “I do only as the Father is doing.” “I say only as the Father is saying.” It’s as Peter exhorts in 1 Peter 4:10-11. Please click and read! Thank you for your patience and your ear. The Lord bless His people. Amen.

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    88. NoraOctober 10, 2017 at 11:58 AM

      Deanna,

      I asked you politely to stop debating this matter with me and please stop continue to force your beliefs on me two times today! I told you that I will never change my mind on the sureness of our eternal security in Christ! (I'd just like to add that the official doctrine of this whole website is pro-eternal security.) You continued to ignore what I asked of you, so I ask you a third time and the last time: please let those of us who believe in eternal-security (not just me) fellowship in peace with each other!

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    89. Sheila B.October 10, 2017 at 12:56 PM

      Hey Nora! It's all good Sister. Just think about how this contending for our faith has rooted it deeper than even we thought it could go and strengthened it all the more and just before we go home. We know what we know! He truly does work all things to the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. I was feeling a bit weary but now I am so jazzed again, which is really good cause I feel a need to be on a super high tip-toe kind of watch the next few days. I love the excitement of listening for that Voice, but on this side of it I'm old and need all the energy I can get. Something I thought was making me tired has done just the opposite. Amazing Grace! Can't wait to sing those praises of Psalm 117 before Him with all of the precious Body of Christ!

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    90. UnknownOctober 10, 2017 at 12:59 PM

      @Nora....I've been reading your comments for over 9 months now (on this site, and others you and I follow). You are a sweet soul who is lovingly searching/watching for His soon return (as am I). You, Sheila, and I (as well as others) obviously do not believe we can lose our salvation. Deanna MAY believe it can be lost (more to come in my response to her). As you've stated, none of us are going to change the others mind....and that's fine. If she believes we can lose it, then we are warned. It won't matter one bit once we leave this life. Will their be crowns awarded to believers? Yes, but we will all cast them down at the feet of Christ. Their will be no pride in Heaven of Earthly achievements. I would encourage you to move along in the security that you have and let this not trouble you anymore.

      @ Sheila - You're just trouble = ) (takes one to know one!!) and I love your spirit!! It's going to be fun....hopefully soon sister!!

      @ Deanna - You said above "And please know I empathize with you - denying self, searching out His truth, and trusting Christ to work His Word in us IS our work."
      Yes!!! This is what we (Nora, Sheila, and I) have been saying. It is Christ who works through the believer to produce fruit....I 100% agree. If I've misinterpreted your doctrine to be "we produce works and those works save us" then I apologize. The Spurgeon article was great, and I it strengthened my belief that it is Christ alone that saves.

      When I first became a believer, I thought I was a pretty good guy and was just made a little better because of my decision to ask Christ to make me new. This He did, and He started to reveal my real condition to me. As I progressed, I began to see that, maybe I wasn't such a good guy, and I started to realize the awesome gift of grace. Why would God die for someone like me? (and what can I do to pay Him back!?!?). The progression continued, God continued to open my eyes to my true condition, and I began to see that there was very little good in me, and the gift of grace became even bigger....and the question became more complex. WHY why why would Jesus sacrifice himself for me??? I know now there is nothing good in me, and the mystery of grace is that just that..."while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." If I truly contemplate that...it brings me to tears. Why indeed? Once the work is begun, it will be complete. If you think we can lose that, fair enough....as I said above, you have warned us. As for me, I would die before I would reject the one who gave everything for me. I can never pay him back (I'm not saying you're saying that btw)...I can never work myself into his good graces. I can only rest in his finished work...Tetelestai!

      Blessings & soon and very soon I pray!

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    91. NoraOctober 10, 2017 at 1:28 PM

      Sheila and Lance,

      I’m sending *BIG HUGS* to you through the net, dear Sister and Brother thank you for your words of comfort and kindness, so refreshing! And thank you for sharing your testimony with us Lance!!!

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    92. UnknownOctober 10, 2017 at 2:44 PM

      Dear Lance M: “If I've misinterpreted your doctrine to be ‘we produce works and those works save us’ then I apologize. The Spurgeon article was great, and I it strengthened my belief that it is Christ alone that saves.“ Praise the Lord you persevered! Glad you loved the article also, and that the Lord had Annabel post the link (therein, Spurgeon blows some of her misunderstandings out of the water). Apology accepted of course; no offense taken with Nora or Shelia either, whether they’re apprehending what you have or not.

      God is glorified as we deny self and follow Christ, digging ever deeper into His omnipotent Word which saves and sanctifies us in the present tense. That’s why we must continue in the Word (intimacy with Jesus).

      After 13 years of formal education after high school, National Medical Hinor Society, and years of building highly esteemed practice (Pres. of Medical Staff, etc.), the Lord saved me with Gal. 2:20
      (which Shelia quoted); it was an intense Paulean conversion at age 45. I was and remain on FIRE for Jesus. I quit practicing medicine to have the awesome intimacy with Him that I do, answering His call to minister to Him like the woman with the alabaster jar, much to my family’s initial shock and dismay. But you can go to About Me
      https://thelordiswithus.com/about-me-and-the-writings/ to read more of my testimonies and writings.)

      So yes, praise God I know the basic foundation VERY solidly (please read Heb. 6:1-6 now, perhaps seeing the irony not previously appreciated). As all who have walked closely with Christ learn, He reveals works of the devil, including doctrinal falsehoods, and these must be exposed, uprooted and destroyed.

      Jesus Christ never leaves or abandons us, BUT we CAN leave Him of OUR doing, as 2 Peter 2:20-22, John 15:6, and the multiple passages shared in Hebrews (encouraging BELIEVERS) make clear, and as occurred to some loved ones of mine...

      Nora: In love, I’m going to tease you that you claimed something like “this is the last time I’m addressing you, Deanna,” and then you went back on that. That old Adam of ours is SUCH a lot of trouble, as we Texans say. Love you, sis!

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    93. UnknownOctober 10, 2017 at 3:20 PM

      We're so glad you're here....sounds like a big loss for the medical community.

      I love the story of the women with that anointed Christ. She provides such a great example of humility....nice choice!

      Blessings for your ministry

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    94. Sheila B.October 10, 2017 at 5:00 PM

      Well...what can I say? It's been an incredible journey made even more so by discovering this site and some truly fine family in Christ to share my faith with. Nora and Annabel, love and blessings to you both. Have learned much from you.

      And Mr. Lance, you probably nailed me but hopefully there's just a small streak of it that still manages to abide in me. I can have something of a suspicious nature as well that I'll be glad to shed. Probably comes from years of walking the fields, woods, creeks and ponds and always having to keep an eye out for one of those old red and yellow, kill a fellow, copperheaded water rattlers. But this corruptible will soon put on incorruption and I won't have to open my prayers with "Hey Lord, it's me...your flaky little problem child." That is my blessed hope. And I know you will keep us all laughing when we get to eternity.

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    95. NoraOctober 11, 2017 at 4:18 AM

      Deanna,

      "digging ever deeper into His omnipotent Word which saves and sanctifies us in the present tense. That’s why we must continue in the Word (intimacy with Jesus)."

      Just a bit of clarification…. You wrote that the Lord's Word sanctifies and saves us in *the present tense*. Does that mean: if we aren't keeping up certain standards and making certain efforts we can lose our salvation? If I misunderstood you and that's not what you meant, I’m sorry! But if you meant that, since, according to you *our eternal security in Christ* is a false doctrine (plus based on how you interpreted *the branches and the vine*)… All I could say (again) that once the Lord saved us: we are saved by Him and sealed by His Holy Spirit! In that sense it is already in past tense. Of course He is keeping us saved but it will never ever stop! He won't STOP saving us if we don't live up to certain standards and aren't keeping up certain efforts and performance! Maintaining salvation is a not a team-work with the Lord! It is important to submit to the Lord with the intent of love and gratitude and because it is the safest and most blessed place to walk with the Lord! But we’re not maintaining our own salvation with it, it is solely the Lord’s job. That’s all I wanted to clarify.

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    96. NoraOctober 11, 2017 at 4:42 AM

      p.s.: No matter how we phrase it, if we should have an active part in keeping our own salvation, otherwise we lose it, it is a teaching of grace mixed with works (which is also no longer a gift) and that is not what the “Good News” is about. We’ll never reach the Lord’s standards when it comes to our own efforts and performance! That’s why He needed to save us. Man, I said I won’t debate this anymore and here I am. Eternal security is such a core-element of the New Covenant. The Old Covenant was between man and God (Abraham and the Lord) but the New Covenant is between the Godhead (Son and Father and the Holy Spirit), that’s why we aren’t involved in the “maintenance” the Lord Himself is enforcing it! What we need to do is “believe in the One He has sent” and accept His perfect blood atonement on our behalf! The Lord justifies us and keeps us safe after that and He won’t stop no matter what. With the help of the Holy Spirit we mature. Of course the better that goes the more we are willing Him to take the wheel, we should participate because it is a loving relationship with the Godhead and that nurtures us in the way we are created to be nurtured! A deep loving relationship with our Creator is the aim of our life. The intent shouldn’t be the maintenance of our own salvation with whatever actions. Again, it’s the Lord’s job to keep us safe and He will, we can’t do anything on our own, that was the aim of His perfect law!

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    97. NoraOctober 11, 2017 at 5:09 AM

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    101. NoraOctober 11, 2017 at 6:25 AM

      Sorry, I had to re-adjust a few things. (Too many things in too many comments.)

      A few last thoughts. If we won’t submit to Him after we’ve become saved and regularly refuse to walk with Him, we’ll live a very unfulfilled, unfruitful and basically unhappy life and we will not get rewards at the Bema Seat but our salvation will remain intact because it is solely based upon His finished and perfect work on the cross. 1 Corinthians 3:15 will happen at the Bema Seat Judgment of Christ as the consequence of an unfruitful Christian life. “If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as fire.” I’m definitely not recommending it to any believer in Christ! The point is that He is faithful and He keeps up His part of the bargain even if we aren’t faithful to Him, that’s what the Scripture says. 2Timothy 2:13, “If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.” I’d like to add regarding the verse right before it –verse 12- that *denying the Lord* means refusing His blood atonement on our behalf!

      The Judgment Seat of Christ (Bema Seat) -which will be for the believers in Christ (and a person’s salvation is no longer in question here)- is not the same as the Big White Throne of Judgment, which will be for unbelievers. (Felt the need to add this as clarification.) And, of course, belief in Christ and in His blood atonement on our behalf is a very important matter of the heart.

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    102. NoraOctober 11, 2017 at 6:26 AM

      I might add the *ABC* of salvation. Copying it here:

      A. Admit you are a sinner.

      "There is no one righteous, not even one ... for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

      Romans 3:10,23. (See Romans 5:8; 6:23.)

      Ask God's forgiveness.

      "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
      Romans 10:13

      B. Believe in Jesus

      (put your trust in Him) as your only hope of salvation.

      "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 (See John 14:6.)

      Become a child of God by receiving Christ.

      "To all who receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." John 1:12 (See Revelation 3:20.)

      C. Confess that Jesus is your Lord.

      "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 (See verse 10.)

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    103. TruthisallOctober 11, 2017 at 6:49 AM

      I think there is something we all miss sometimes in studying our Salvation, and if I may interject some food for thought without being crucified here, I usd to believe in that cliche OSAS, which I personally don't believe, one because of scripture, and two because, I myself fell from His loving protection, let me explain, before putting up walls, we all love to quote the John 3:16, but sometimes our flesh only reads the fist part of that verse : 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. that whosoever BELIEVES in HIM, is the focus. I don't in any way see that anyone can make a confession with their mouth, and continue down the wide path, will be saved, because although salvation is a free gift, it's only to those that receive that gift, and BELIEVE, now let's look at what that BELIEVE means, it means in a nut shell, to walk the walk, to do all the commands written in His word, to comply, to allow the Holy Spirit to guide and direct our steps, now how do we accomplish that? So many people want to scream , "it's not about works" and they are right if they mean it's not about works of the FLESH, because when the scripture tells us FAITH ( BELIEF ) without works is DEAD, it is talking about the works of the flesh, we have always known there are Good ole Boys out there, that do a lot good in the Flesh, helping others, fixing someone's flat, taking food to their neighbor, etc....but I hope everyone understands that if that Good ole boy ain't Believing in the work that Yashua did on the stake, he will not be saved. But my friends, there are works involved in BELIEVING, and those works are spiritual works....Praying, living a repentive lifestyle, searching , seeking, studying, trusting with all our hearts, Loving each other as ourselves.....those are required fruit of the truly saved, eternal life Christians, Thus the greatest commandment. You cannot separate BELIEF from works of the spiritual kind, ever! I tried it, I know, lol....if one BELIEVES he shall not perish but have everlasting life. And if we BELIEVE, which we can plainly see here is a requirement for eternal salvation, we are truly given the gift of that eternal life. Like I said above, if you truly BELIEVE, then you will do those spiritual works, no getting around it. Faith or BELIEF comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of Abba Father, no one can just say the sinners prayer, and not Hear and study, and seek, and pray, live however we want to in this world, and expect eternal salvation, that is a very dangerous road to walk, so yes, there are works involved, spiritual works, we cannot have two Masters, we cannot be double minded, for that man will, or receive anything from the Father. We must not say ok, I'm saved no matter what, I have eternal life no matter what,,,,,,,because we don't. We must Believe, and to believe is to do the will of our Father, pray, seek, search, hear, see the truth, praise, I could go on and on, but you get the picture. I don't question anyone's eternal position here, as the obvious shows we are all seeking, but this truth must be taught to those that need to be saved, and receive the gift of eternal life, we must choose to be like Yashua, even if it doesn't make us popular, even if it means persecution, we must stay true to our first Love, by continually operating in the fruit of the spirit, that comes from growing in HIS word. Blessings!

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    104. NoraOctober 11, 2017 at 8:43 AM

      One more thing. Being born again and belief in Christ usually leads to acts of faith. But these acts of faith are not means to keep our own salvation, these are consequences of being born again. (As I mentioned, keeping our own salvation is not a team work with the Lord, He keeps us saved Himself.) For example: we are alive so our hair grows. Okay, this is not a perfect example since bald people are alive too and I’ve heard that hair grows for a short while after death but I’ll skip these details now, it still fits for explanation. Our hair grows because we’re alive but we won’t say, “Let’s grow some hair so I make sure that I’m alive and I keep myself so!” That doesn’t work that way and neither the acts of faith. As I also mentioned, I believe so that *works in Christ which He Himself prepared for us* are things that we are doing at His prompt and in His strength with the help of His Holy Spirit. We need to submit to Him which is the consequence of learning more about His love toward us, about His wonderful character and what He has done for us. All of that is only possible after one has become saved because all of that happens with the help of the indwelling Holy Spirit Who is sealed within us forever(!) as the Scripture says. Without the Holy Spirit’s help we can’t learn anything and can’t do anything on our own. Regarding the fruits of the Holy Spirit, “ But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.” (Galatians 5:22-23) I’ve pondered on that topic lately and I believe more and more so that the production of these fruits is happening as we’re growing in His love. The more deeply rooted we are in His love, the more we experience and learn of and about His love, -as a consequence- the more fruits of the Holy Spirit will grow in our hearts and lives. His love through the watering of the Holy Spirit is nurturing these fruits. That’s what I believe. Having a deep, meaningful, loving and fulfilling relationship with the Lord is what *walking with Him* is about and it is never the means of salvation and/or the keeping of it! Getting saved itself is providing the possibility for that personal and loving relationship with Him. Walking with the Lord requires free will and active participation on our side but even in that case He is also the One who should take the lead and we should follow the leading of His Holy Spirit. He is our Good Shepard. And He keeps us saved. (If it’s needed I repeat this endlessly.) Regarding *saving faith* which is also the Lord’s gift, within this discussion, in one of my previous comments above I linked two short *writings* from the late Jack Kelley’s website http://gracethrufaith.com/. I usually link his website and his studies because I absolutely believe so that regarding the topic of salvation he provides sound Biblical doctrine in his teaching. Same goes for Robert Breaker. His youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Robertbreaker3/videos

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    105. NoraOctober 11, 2017 at 10:15 AM

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    106. UnknownOctober 13, 2017 at 9:22 AM

      1 Cor. 15:1-2
      Now brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which [note please] you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if [here follows God’s condition] you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. [OSAS is herein refuted]

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    107. NoraOctober 13, 2017 at 10:07 AM

      Deanna,

      This Bible passage does not refute our eternal security in Christ. People with the *anti-eternal security mindset* tend to look at and explain every Bible passage through their own wrong lenses while ignoring all the crystal clear passages of eternal security, among them even the ones right from the Lord's own mouth in the Gospel! There’s not a case of Bible passage usage by anti-eternal security folks that haven’t been debunked already! I’ve studied this for years, I’ve learned my lessons. Below, I link a fine list of Bible verses that are –absolutely wrongly- used by anti-eternal security folks and the debunking of the wrong usage of each.

      https://escapetoreality.org/resources/eternal-security/4/

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    108. NoraOctober 13, 2017 at 10:13 AM

      (p.s.: Among them there's the one you've just quoted.)

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    109. NoraOctober 13, 2017 at 11:24 AM

      For further consideration.

      https://escapetoreality.org/2013/02/19/standing-secure-on-gods-promises/

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    110. NoraOctober 13, 2017 at 11:26 AM

      Deanna,

      The thing is that in the end, I could only say the same I‘ve said before: I believe so that you need personal revelation(s) of the Lord’s love, mercy, grace and His character through His Holy Spirit! Please seek the Lord on this matter! Please! The Holy Spirit’s help is always needed in discernment and as I mentioned, I believe so that only He can convince people. Because of these reasons, I think so that continuing this conversation/debate on *eternal security* is pointless. Otherwise, we’ll go around in circles endlessly. So, on my part I’m ending this conversation. (This time, really. :--) Next to my previously shared thoughts, I left enough Bible verses and links to studies that I deemed as Biblically sound when it comes to the topic of our eternal security in Christ. None of this is for forcing on you anything you wouldn’t like! People who’d like to check them will do so in the future. The Lord bless you and help you -just like all of us- growing in His love! We all need to learn about His love continually, experiencing it continually and that way growing in it.

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    111. NoraOctober 13, 2017 at 11:51 AM

      One last closing thought: When it comes to trusting the Lord, as He said: we should become like little children. The more we experience and learn of His over-abundant, wonderful love, the better of trusting Him with childlike faith will go. Lord bless! :--)

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    112. NoraOctober 13, 2017 at 12:22 PM

      Last-last thought :--) : Little children are utterly helpless and totally dependent on their caregiver(s) for every single of their needs, literally for everything. This is exactly our relationship with the Lord, with the entire Godhead. And we have the most loving and best Dad ever!

      Delete
    113. TruthisallOctober 13, 2017 at 12:39 PM

      Sister Nora, I don't think anyone here denies the fact that you are saved, it shows, because of the obvious. You are here, you are awake, you are searching. However for any that might not be....there is Avery important word that a lot of people miss when saying OSAS, that word is BELIEVE, you must study this word, because no matter what anyone says, you can't be saved period unless you BELIEVE, we need to study this word with an eastern mindset, not a western mindset, which is one way and one way only.....that little word hold the key, because if you don't BELIEVE, you ain't saved! That word is directed at spiritual works, prayer, study, seeking, developing an intimate relationship with our Creator, and His Son, through His Holy Spirit, in fact, no one CAN BELIEVE without those works, FAITH comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Abba Father, so to hear, you must seek, study, pray......continually......not just once
      We cannot be fence riders, double minded, lukewarm, because our Father is just, and faithful, He keeps His word. So not to be continually active and seeking, just carrying on with our lives loving the things of this world, more than Elohim.....will not get you eternal life....too many scriptures, everywhere tell us that fact! We must be open to learn and grow in His love and Grace, that sometimes means looking at things several different ways. It in no way takes away from anything, it only adds confidence in our security of eternal life!

      Delete
  3. UnknownOctober 7, 2017 at 7:53 AM

    Coincidence that the unexpected Draconid shower is also today which will peak during evening twilight hour of jerusalem time..

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  4. schooldadOctober 7, 2017 at 10:06 AM

    The table of nations in Genesis 10 tells us that there were 70 original people groups that would ultimately form todays nations. On the day of atonement ( if the priest is accepted ) a sacrifice was made for Israel that made them acceptable for the next year. This made them a kingdom of priests by which they would intercede for the nations of the world. 70 bullocks were offered for them ( one for each people group ). But there were also 14 rams, 98 lambs, and 7 kids offered as-well. That is a total of 189 sacrifices. If one adds in the meat offerings and drink offerings 7 + 7 would bring us to 205. Roughly half 105 of the offerings were of very young animals ( lambs and kids ). The UN recognizes about 250 separate nations. But this would include places like Vatican City, North Korea, South Korea, Taiwan, Palestine and Kosovo among others which are not defined by a separate people group. Most entities recognize any where from 189 to 205 nations. Many of which have formed in the last two hundred years. Did the feast of tabernacles tell us something about the world body of nations when the feast it self would be fulfilled ? Notice that we first see a castrated steer ( a bullock ). There will never be any more than 70 people groups in this age. A kid and a lamb are essentially new-born. Many of these nations will be relatively new compared to the original 70. Less than 200 years ago most of todays nations simply did not exist. The drink offering of blood and water ( wine was substituted for blood ) was clearly understood to depict the pouring out of the spirit on and atonement for the nations. Just saying it but how ironic that the sign of revelation 12 hit when the number of the nations of the world reflect the offerings of the feast of tabernacles.

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  5. schooldadOctober 7, 2017 at 10:07 AM

    In revelation 1:4 we learn of seven spirits of the Lord which are before his throne. These seven spirits (also known as seven lamps of revelation in 4:5 and 5:6) are known as the seven horns and the seven eyes. They are sent into all of the earth. According to Zechariah 4:1-3 the seven lamps sit on the seven candle sticks. The seven candle sticks according to revelation 1-3 are the seven churches.
    So here is what we have. The seven candle sticks are the seven churches. The seven lamps sit on the seven candle sticks. They are the seven spirits before the throne. However the seven horns and seven eyes ( also the seven spirits) are sent forth into all the earth ( presumably thru the church ). They are a whole and clearly teach us that the letters to the seven churches are sent not only to Asia minor but to where ever the seven spirits ( church goes ). Into all the earth. As we will see that may mean 189-205 nations.
    In an earlier post today, we mentioned that there were a total of 189 or 205 sacrifices done for the gentile nations during the feast of tabernacles. Today most entities recognize anywhere from 189-205 nations world-wide. I suggested that the ancient Feast of Tabernacles may have had a prophetic element to it thus telling us what the world body politic would be at the time of the great sign of revelation 12 on 9/23/17.
    Now here is another fascinating fact. In the temple there were ten golden lamps stands/candle sticks with their oil lamps. They each faced ten separate tables of show bread (depicting Israel) each with twelve pieces of unleavened bread. In-order to access the Lamp Stands one had to go past the tables. The imagery is stunning. To get to the church you had to go thru Israel.
    Now comes the math. Seven lamps on ten separate golden candle sticks equals 70. There were 70 progenitor nations of the world in Genesis 10. There were ten tables of show bread as-well with 12 loaves each. Twelve times ten is 120. Add 70 and you have 190. That is with-in the 189-205 nations number currently held. The church/Israel is in ALL of them. Did the temple furnishings tell us how many nations the seed of promise (seven spirits/churches) would be in at the time of the sign of Revelation 12 ?

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    1. UnknownOctober 7, 2017 at 1:09 PM

      This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. UnknownOctober 7, 2017 at 1:21 PM

      I like your thinking Brad, I am of the opinion that the sacrifices in the first half of tribulation are legitimate sacrifices - Yeshua and Daniel seem to agree. If the two witnesses (Elijah & Moses), who are bringing terror to the world, did not want sacrifices in Israel then I doubt there would be sacrifices happening. Then they are made to cease when the AC invades Jerusalem and overcomes them mid-trib, then comes great tribulation and winepress of the wrath of God.

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    3. Through and ThroughOctober 8, 2017 at 3:29 AM

      If it's appointed unto man to die once Howard, how many times did Lazarus die? Jesus statement was a general one. The rapture and return of Christ will see millions of believers who will never taste death even the first time.

      Delete
  6. AnnabelOctober 7, 2017 at 11:33 AM

    I have never quite understood the deeper meaning of the Sukkot offering but doesn't matter now: Pauls 'donkey' video is so TERRIFIC, a MUST watch! Very very good. :))

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    1. AnonymousOctober 7, 2017 at 12:08 PM

      Hello dear Annabel and my other siblings in Christ, it’s deanna. (Since I updated my iPhone to ios11 I can’t seem to post comments here on my Google account, but I can do it as anonymous.) I wanted to share with you and all others on this site the best article I’ve found on FoTabernacles. Just copy the link and paste. Blessings dear siblings!
      http://torahfamily.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/The-Last-Day-of-Sukkot-9-29-17-1.pdf

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    2. HowardOctober 7, 2017 at 1:54 PM

      Annabel, be careful here. Joel 2-3 speaks to a time when Judah has returned to Jerusalem; Ashkenazis descend from Japheth-Gomer-Ashkenaz (Get 10:3) meaning they are not Semitic or Jewish. God warned this would happen in Gen 9:27 "Japheth shall dwell in the tents of Shem and Canaan will be his servant" Sephardics descend from Babylonians, Medeans, Canaanites who replaced Israel during Assyrian Captivity (2 Ki 17:30). The battle spoken of in Joel 2 is Gog and Magog invading Jerusalem at the end of the Millennium on Feast of Tabernacles; Why then? This is the only Feast of the LORD required during the Millennium (Zech 14:18) so everyone in covenant with the LORD will be in camp.

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    3. AnnabelOctober 7, 2017 at 3:30 PM

      Howard, honestly I will leave these details up to God completely and do rejoice about that there will be NO MORE QUESTIONS left with Jesus (John 16:23 a). Blessings to you! :)

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  7. MarianneOctober 7, 2017 at 11:59 AM

    Now were talking! Brad that was an excellent study, rightly dividing the word as Jesus told us to; Paul said "Prove all things".
    I might add one thing about Tabernacles; Jesus was born on the 1st Day of Tabernacles and Circumcised under the Law He wrote and delivered to Moses on 2 hand size tablets. He is the Pillar of Fire and Smoke which became the Tabernacle in the Wilderness with the 7 Branch (Piped) Candlestick of 7 Bowls.
    Now notice how Zechariah describes that 7 Branched Candlestick as having a Bowl on top. Jesus on the Tree Acts 5:30 KJV (and 6 more scriptures describing a single Tree); is the 7 Branch Candlestick representing the 7th Covenant between God and Man; He is the Tree of Life from the Garden of Eden. Jesus was rejected and hung on the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil; 6 uplifted arms (pipes) surrounding the King (JESUS KING OF THE JEWS) became the 8th New Covenant between God and Man; JESUS (Mat 1:25 KJV) born on Tabernacles to become the SPIRITUAL KING OF KINGS. Notice the CAPITALIZED Spelling in the KJV matches JEHOVAH (Ex 6:3) and its shortened form JAH (Ps 68:4 KJV) and JESUS (Mat 1:25 KJV)
    JESUS uniting the 70 Nations (Now expanded) on Feast of Tabernacles; Quite a sight and proven in Zechariah 14:16-18 KJV During the Millennium Gog and Magog is the last rebellion against God; notice the only Feast required during the Millennium to be attended is Feast of Tabernacles.
    All Nations united by JESUS must go through Israel as Brad said; this is very true. Jacob wrestled with God and was renamed Israel "One who wrestles with God" This is exactly what Brad is doing, I think rather well with this particular study right here on this page.
    "The virgin of Israel has fallen, she shall no more rise" Amos 5:2 KJV was written because Israel adopted the Six Pointed Star of Moloch (Amos 5:26 KJV) Jacob shall no more rise (Amos 7:2-3 KJV Amos 7:5-6 KJV) The LORD states this twice to hammer home the point and you will find this only in the KJV. Who is Israel today that the Nations must pass through for Salvation? Followers of JESUS, Baptized by the Holy Spirit.
    Now look at Rev 12 from this SPIRITUAL perspective. The Dragon is explained to be Satan, Devil, Serpent, Lucifer (Rev 12:9) who has deceived the entire world i.e. all the Nations. A Virgin gave birth to Jupiter to be sure and the Dragon will try to kill her offspring to be sure, but they are protected 1260 days; physically? Hardly, Jesus and the Apostles said nothing and cared nothing for physical safety; He said we will be delivered to Synagogues and Prisons, and should not think of what we will say in defense; JESUS will speak for us.
    This is why it is so imperative to at least consider reading Scripture (Word of God) as God wrote it via the Holy Ghost; JESUS returns and His Name is The Word of God; the physical book w have in our hands is not subject to anyone's "Private Interpretation".

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    1. Through and ThroughOctober 8, 2017 at 3:32 AM

      Hi Howard - if Israel is to 'rise no more', then how do you interpret Romans 9-11 regarding Israel?

      Ryan

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  8. AnonymousOctober 7, 2017 at 3:29 PM

    I have a question about de Midnight Oct. 12 video. Where would it be midnight? I am here in West Europe and when it's midnight here, it won't for al the folks in de US. So for WHO will it be midnight?
    Joyce

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    1. AnonymousOctober 7, 2017 at 5:37 PM

      Jerusalem is 1 hour ahead of Paris.

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    2. AnonymousOctober 7, 2017 at 5:54 PM

      When he says Midnight Oct 12 i assume he means Wednesday night at Midnight Jerusalem time. Sukkot ends at sunset Wednesday, Oct 11.

      Delete
    3. AnonymousOctober 7, 2017 at 6:10 PM

      I meant Tue Oct 10.

      Delete
    4. AnonymousOctober 7, 2017 at 6:12 PM

      An earlier reply didn't go through. North Korea missle test expected for Tue Oct 10 Korean time.

      Delete
  9. AmmiOctober 7, 2017 at 5:33 PM

    Brad can you give me or send me a bio of who Paul Dawson is. I'm not familiar with him and would like some background.. myammi@gmail.com. Thank you much.

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  10. 2TimOctober 8, 2017 at 8:14 AM

    I'd like some opinions on Matthew 24:42 and Matthew 24:44. These specifically seem to have very strong "you will not know" language, which has me confused. And in context, the preceding verses seem as though they have to be speaking of the rapture and not the second coming. Why such emphasis that we won't know? Thanks friends.

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  11. UnknownOctober 8, 2017 at 8:17 AM

    So now it's a Dragon, and shooting Stars???...http://earthsky.org/tonight/legendary-draconids-boom-or-bust

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  12. AnonymousOctober 8, 2017 at 11:50 AM

    Very compelling:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aHhDJbi0YE&sns=em

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  13. AnonymousOctober 8, 2017 at 5:07 PM

    The imminent meteor shower is called "Draconid."

    "Draconid meteors and a comet breathe fire into the sky"

    https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/draconid-meteor-shower-comet-c-2017-01-asas-sn/

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    1. AnonymousOctober 8, 2017 at 5:11 PM

      And the Draconid shower coincides w/ the predicted No Korea "test" launch, possible U.S. retaliation, and the possible suspension of the Iran treaty.
      Will Hell literally break loose this week?

      Delete
  14. AnonymousOctober 8, 2017 at 8:39 PM

    Meteor passing earth within moon's orbit at 5:42 pm Pacific daylight savings time on Wed Oct 11, 8:42 pm Oct 11 Eastern, and 3:42 am Oct 12 in Jerusalem.

    http://earthsky.org/space/near-earth-asteroid-2012-tc4-close-pass-october-2017

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  15. TruthisallOctober 9, 2017 at 4:04 PM

    Hello everyone, after reading through all the post the last few days, I see so much disagreement on the subject "OSAS" it led me into prayer, because I for sure want to have all the truth, because that IS what sets us free, so as I began to seek the Father I got this :
    There are folks that for whatever reason, maybe they are in a trail, or having a feeling of guilt, not really of their sin, just feeling guilty, whatever the reason, and they make the confession with their mouth. Later we see them living the same as they were, no different in their earthly walk, that we can observe. I have to question weather or not they are saved, because it's more than a confession, it's BELIEVING in our hearts. I'm under the impression that when a person is truly saved, and given the gift of eternal life, that there WILL be fruit, fruit that all can observe, if we don't have the fruit, I question as to weather we really believe....I know for me, because I do believe, I desire to walk in the fruit of the spirit, and to keep all the commands written in the Word, they are for my benefit, I also see the awesome sacrifice Yahshua paid, and I want to honor Him by keeping His word, because I do believe. I don't think we can confess the sinners prayer, then just go on living like we don't believe it, and expect to be saved. Does that make sense? I also know there is none of us without sin, and we have an advocate with the Father. Yashua, we can ask forgiveness, however I think if we are truly saved, we desire nothing more than to completely follow his word, and bear the fruit that grows from that seed of belief. This really helped me see that separation from those that are truly saved and those that may not be. We must know that our Gift of salvation doesn't give us a license to sin, because that is a total abuse of The Fathers Grace, and of the work done at the stake for us. So in summary, If we are truly saved, there WILL be fruit, we have a desire above all else to please our Father, and to keep His commands, thus the change in our lifestyles from worldly to spiritual. If we can know false teachers by their fruit, we can also know true believers by theirs, the ones that are truly saved! So when we say we believe "OSAS" we are speaking of those that bear the fruit of that gift. When the word tells us to examine ourselves, it's for that reason, we are to look at what fruit we are bearing, is the fruit of being saved, or is it the fruit of the world? Did we just make a simple confession, or do we believe? Halleluya I BELIEVE!

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  16. TruthisallOctober 9, 2017 at 4:37 PM

    In addition, actually I forgot this part, the saying "OSAS" is really a bad term to use, because we all should know that people can choose to walk away, we have a free will, just because they prayed the sinners prayer doesn't make them "saved" what saves us is the belief of Yahshua did for us, and that belief will bring forth fruit from the Holy Spirit! And the fruit is shown to all, by how we conduct our lives, either in praise to Elohim or praise to the world.

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    1. UnknownOctober 9, 2017 at 6:18 PM

      The Scriptures support what you say here, fellow disciple. Those who love, submit to, and have faith in the Lord - the Word of God - are empowered by the indwelling Holy Spirit to accomplish His will (to produce the fruit of the Spirit). Those works we accomplish by faith in Christ are proof of our present-tense salvation/sanctification. We must be and remain in intimate relationship
      with Christ, the Word of God, though, just as He remained submitted to the Father every moment of His life on earth as a man, being purposeful to do only as the Father was doing, and to say only what the Father was saying.

      Here are some of His half-brother’s words on the matter:
      James 2:14,20-24 (NASB) 14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? ...20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. 24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

      Indeed, telling baby Christians “once saved, always saved” can lead them away from truly walking/acting by faith and thus doing the work of God, as you have addressed. I have already provided many Scriptures addressing the very horrid possibility of apostasy (I was signed in as “Anonymous” until my Google Account was corrected). I hope I have been of help! Love to you in Christ!

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    2. TruthisallOctober 9, 2017 at 6:35 PM

      Thank you, I had struggled with that for many years, I firmly believe, if we are truly saved, and I believe we are being saved until the day we see Our Adon Yahshua , that we will operate in the fruit of the spirit, how can we not, if the Holy Spirit dwells in us, then it shall be. I also think it is on going, we must remain in his word searching, learning, seeking, I believe as long as we will listen to and act on what the Holy Spirit tells and leads us into, we truly can't loose the gift of salvation, but because we have a free will, I do think we can trash that gift, Father forbid. I also know that His mercy is more than we can comprehend, and as long as our heart is right, and we continue in His word, we should rejoice. That seed that grows in us, the fruit of the spirit, also manifest things in our lifestyle that is visible

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    3. UnknownOctober 10, 2017 at 9:07 AM

      Truthisall: Amen. Love how you expressed all that. And your pseudonym shows why you are walking victoriously in Christ as you are. Sadly, many men refuse to love the truth and be saved, and so God delivers them over to deception (see 2 Thess. 2:10-12).
      Let us be strong in the Word, dear siblings!

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  17. TruthisallOctober 9, 2017 at 6:05 PM

    Two common objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation concern these experiential issues: 1) What about Christians who live in a sinful, unrepentant lifestyle? 2) What about Christians who reject the faith and deny Christ? The problem with these objections is the assumption that everyone who calls himself a “Christian” has actually been born again. The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a state of continual, unrepentant sin (1 John 3:6). The Bible also says that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he was never truly a Christian (1 John 2:19). He may have been religious, he may have put on a good show, but he was never born again by the power of God. “By their fruit you will recognize them” (Matthew 7:16). The redeemed of God belong “to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God” (Romans 7:4).

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    1. UnknownOctober 9, 2017 at 6:28 PM

      “The Bible also says that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he was never truly a Christian (1 John 2:19).” - Not exactly true. 1 John 2:19 addresses the tares the devil sows in with the wheat (Matt. 13:24-30, 36-43). But other Scriptures like John 15:1-2,6 and 2 Peter 2:1-22 (note especially v20) and Hebrews 3:12 and 6:4-8 and 10:26-31 address believers who have fallen away of their own will/doing. These are the “rocky soil” that receives the seed (Word of God) but the plant dries up because it wasn’t rooted deeply enough in the Lord (see Matt. 13:5-6, 20-21).

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    2. TruthisallOctober 9, 2017 at 6:50 PM

      I want to be clear here, I'm not talking about works, as we all should know, works don't get us there, There are however the works of the Holy Spirit that should be evident in every saved individual, and if we don't walk in His commands, how can we do the good works of the Spirit?

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    3. UnknownOctober 10, 2017 at 9:16 AM

      Yes, as in James 2:14-26. These works of the Spirit follow true faith in Jesus Christ. As He made clear in His sermon on the mount, "Not everyone who calls out to me, 'Lord! Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.” (Matt 7:21 NLT). Also Luke 8:21, and the overcomers of Rev. Chs 2 & 3, such as in Rev. 3:26-28 and Rev. 3:21. Blessings.

      Delete
  18. MichelleOctober 11, 2017 at 8:39 AM

    Philippians 2:12 King James Version (KJV)
    12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

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Colossians 3:2-4

Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

1 Peter 2:9

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

Philippians 3:20-21

But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.