Another Respected Scholar Who Recognized The Rapture in Revelation 12!
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| Ray Stedman |
But there arises a problem here in understanding this because the ascension of Jesus, as recorded at the end of the Gospels and in the opening of Acts, was not in order that he might escape harm from his enemies on earth. The resurrected Lord was far beyond his enemies' reach by that time -- they could do him no harm. So there is no need for Jesus to ascend into heaven in order to escape the wrath of the dragon.Here is the link to Ray's full commentary on Revelation 12...
But -- and here is where it gets a bit tricky -- there is an aspect of our Lord which found deliverance from danger by being snatched away into heaven. How many of you have guessed what it is? It is the church, of course. All through the New Testament the church and the Lord are regarded as one. Remember when Saul was converted on the Damascus Road Jesus appeared and said to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" Acts 9:4). Paul was actually persecuting the church, but Jesus said, "That is me!" In his first letter to the Corinthians, Paul writes, "The body of Christ is a unit. It is made up of many parts but it is one body -- ," (1 Corinthians 12:12a NIV). And then he added this significant phrase: " -- so also is Christ," (1 Corinthians 12:12b KJV). The church and the Lord are together the body of Christ. So the whole history of the church is involved here, including the rapture. It is interesting that the term used here for the child is that he was snatched up to God. That is the very term that is used for the rapture of the church. It is the Great Snatch! That is what the young people used to call it in the Body Life times of the '60s -- the Great Snatch, the rapture of the church, to occur before the dragon begins his persecuting work.
https://www.raystedman.org/new-testament/revelation/woman-and-the-serpent
/cheer! Nice Find!
ReplyDeleteI love Ray Stedman... We could sure use more teachers like him today
ReplyDeleteThanks for this brother.
ReplyDeleteLook at the structure of Ray's work: conversational, frank, direct and current to the moment of his writing. This style typifies most of what we've seen from our current crop of Watchers and, in keeping with the Lord using the Foolish of the world to shame the Wise, it seems this style of dividing the Word, shared among the common believer, is a hallmark of authenticity in these times. Just sayin'. Great find, looking forward to the next one! Maranatha!
ReplyDeleteThanks guys! It was a fun find! God is good!
DeleteJimboni, I was thinking the same thing about his writing style. I was doing a study on 1John earlier this evening and was typing in my study notes. As I was reading his outline, I was thinking this guy writes like I do in my journal. No fancy words or deep things that make you wonder what he is trying to say, just good old plain conversation type wording. My study notes are just for me to talk to myself, that's the way I felt when I was reading his outline, like he was just talking to himself.
DeleteMaranatha!
"Remember when Saul was converted on the Damascus Road Jesus appeared and said to him, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?' ( Acts 9:4). Paul was actually persecuting the church, but Jesus said, 'That is me!'"
ReplyDeleteKA-POW! That is a terrific insight that had never occurred to me, but it strongly meshes with the idea that the child is the body of Christ.
I am actually a little bit surprised you'd never heard of Ray Stedman...his is a name to remember!
Thanks Greg...yes, that insight struck me too! BTW... You could fill a warehouse with the things I don't know! ; )
DeleteI so thoroughly enjoyed that. I will definitely be reading more of his work. I had heard of him long ago, but had forgotten. Wonderful to have an affirmation truth never changes or gets stale. Blessings - Sherry
ReplyDelete"A wonderful affirmation..." well put, Sherry! The temptation is to second guess everything just because we are still here... but this helps affirm that yes, we are on the right track. The sign was just that... a sign, and announcement, a great WARNING to some and a great source of HOPE for others!!
DeleteThe sign is still in motion, not complete until the child is born? Out of Virgo? The 13th of October which is the 23rd of Tishri, pointing to the beginning and end of the sign maybe? September 23 to Tishri 23? Are we being told something?
DeleteI keep thinking it's not over till it's over. This year has been unlike any other.
Btw, there is a late harvest moon tonight and over a week to go before the 13th, lots can happen in a week.
Nana
Titus 2:13
If I may chime in with a similar study that both Gary at Unsealed.org and Bill Write have, although I don’t know their work that well. I like to contribute to the discussion. It Rev 12 Sign in my opinion continues to be very interesting. I said to myself that I was not going to write about the Sign anymore because I think I had exhausted any aspect of it but was prompted last night. It is nothing major as I just wanted to see what is it going to look like as the Great Sign dissipates astronomically but could be a confirming witness perhaps.
DeleteI had mentioned an abbreviated list of conjunctions in a prior posting so I investigated that further. In the study of the remaining timeframe that will last about 3 months, I came across some possible insights. However, no Rapture correlations of my own other than to investigate the most popular one at the moment, that being Friday the 13th one?! :)
Lu
Chart:
http://nebula.wsimg.com/1e5e0de42a6d35f3abd3459f2a005584?AccessKeyId=D40106E1331C24ABD7C3&disposition=0&alloworigin=1
Article:
http://nebula.wsimg.com/d237fe68455fe32cdc738c40c3a5c1e8?AccessKeyId=D40106E1331C24ABD7C3&disposition=0&alloworigin=1
Nana,
Delete*September 23 to Tishri 23* is very interesting!!! One of the watchmen/women I’m following on youtube had a dream back in 2013 and later in 2016 another dream (the same!) where she saw a Calendar with September, October and November written on it and a hand in her dream switched September and October! I mean, these two months switched places, replaced each other. (She isn’t cheating, there’s the youtube video on her channel she has made in 2016 about that dream. Others have pointed it out to her a few days ago because of the possibilities of this October!) That’s one of the reasons why I considered the possibility of the current (fall-) feasts being off by one month because of the *barley harvest connection*. I also thought that it could point to a possible Feast of Tabernacles “fulfillment” this month. *September 23 to Tishri 23* might mean just that, we’ll see. Whatever happens until the end of the current Feast of Tabernacles, I think this whole fall season got great prophetic implications (just like this year). (Maybe Watchmen’s watchman will turn out to be right in his theory and all 3 fall feasts will be fulfilled this year with the rapture happening at some point as a “conclusion” and again the 3 fall feasts will get a “double fulfillment” at the time of Jesus’ Second Coming.)
Could the Hebrew Calendar be off by 1 month? According to their Agricultural laws, in which God divinely sent Rains exactly when they were suppose to, and matured the Barley Harvest exactly when they were suppose to be, in time for their FirstFruits (Aviv).. 2016 was perfect for their Calendar, but this year, its anything but... And Rains coming along the Wrong times (see 1 Sam 12:17 - its a curse to have Rains at the Harvest), and Barley not ripe for at least the Firstfruits, indicate the Harvest at the timing prescribed by Hebrew Calendar, as is, will not be acceptable. We have a Solid Report from one in Israel that indicates the Hebrew Calendar is off by one month. And God's Calendar is set by His Timing, His Rains, His Weather ...
ReplyDelete"They stumbled on that stone of offense the barley represents, which is our Messiah. I know, I know: That’s a strong statement. But by refusing to recognize the barley as the primary sign, really the only sign to qualify the beginning of the year, simply because it didn’t appear in within a twelve-moon window, they stumbled and have left the path of truth. That clause demanding only twelve moons is simply not included in our instructions."
1 month off according to God's timing of the Rains and Firstfruits harvest - means Feast of Trumpet is Oct 21st of this Year, despite all the Hebrew Calendars being off... Not setting a date, but watching because this year there is an incredible amount of Compelling Evidences this year could be the year..
Full Report of Barley (Aviv) PDF Article:
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/e51d9f_ec44f0e078774d53833b2a5c97bac6c9.pdf
(By the way, the Book of Jubilees 6:36-37 - authoritative in Ethiopian Orthodox and 15 Scrolls found in Dead Sea Scrolls says this:
"For there will be those who will assuredly make observations of the moon -how (it) disturbs the seasons and comes in from year to year ten days too soon.
For this reason the years will come upon them when they will disturb (the order), and make an abominable (day) the day of testimony, and an unclean day a feast day, and they will confound all the days, the holy with the unclean, and the unclean day with the holy; for they will go wrong as to the months and sabbaths and feasts and jubilees." )
--- God already knew Israel nationally would go wrong, and observe Feast Days on the wrong months (going by Mathmatical calculations rather than following Christ - represented by the Barley, and being Ripe by Firstfruits), otherwise why have this written down.. We know that it is this exact month that would affect the timings of the Months. And no one seems to be Waiting on the Real Feast of Trumpets Oct 20-21st.....
Anyway, my thoughts... Thank you.
Steve - (FB - stevejlo)
Which is precisely why the Book of Jubilees, written during the Inter-Testament period when God was not speaking to His prophets, was not made part of the Inspired Canon of Scripture by the early church
DeleteIt is canon in Ethiopian Orthodox, maybe they have actually studied it... And maybe you have not even taken any time to research that statement, and blithely comment..
DeleteSteve - Stevejlo, I've been thinking that all along because the FoT came before the fall equinox. Well stated. I'm in agreement and looking at the third week in October.
DeleteRay Stedman taught Monastacism and Ascetism as the "Path to God"; Joining together with unbelievers; Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Luis Palau is called the Billy Graham of Latin American Catholicism and was Ray Stedman's protege with Charles Swindoll, now Evangelical head of the Dallas Theological Seminary. I attended Swindoll's 1st EV Free Church and read his New Age books for years before I woke up to truth. Watch out folks!
ReplyDeletehttps://bibletruthpublishers.com/wrong-doctrine-of-ray-c-stedman-the-editors-column/paul-wilson/christian-truth-volume-10/la52190
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/palau/general.htm
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/swindoll/general.htm
Kindly point out how any of these deviate from Scripture, book, chapter and verse along with their offending teaching specifically. Otherwise you run the risk of 1) adding undue burden to the brethren; and 2) causing a stumbling block for the less mature.
DeleteThat's awesome!! I love and respect Ray Stedman - so his stance on Rev12 just adds one more solid layer of validity for me :)
ReplyDeleteIt is great that you mentioned sickle. And I associate sickle with the word harvest. And Jesus mentioned that there will be sickle. As we also review and see even the weapons of mass destruction is ominously named SICKLE and SATAN See these links below.
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT-2PM_Topol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qweL00lRSQ
I saw him speak, i think it was at a Campus Crusade for Christ conference 100 years ago, and also read 2-3 of his books including,"What's the World Coming to?"
ReplyDeleteI Might need to re-read that one!
Nice to hear his name again.
I think the astronomical alignment is an important sign that the fulfillment of John's vision is not far off. However, I think many are missing the strategic PLACEMENT of the Revelation 12 sign within the scriptures. The chronological events on earth comprising the 7 year tribulation are pegged to and outlined by the sounding of the seven trumpets. This is why, as the tribulation is actually ready to begin, there is an awesome moment of SILENCE prior to the first trumpet sounding, which includes the FIRST reference to chronological time in the Revelation (see Rev 8:1 and how it also corresponds to Zechariah 2:13, which says, "Be silent, O all flesh, before the Lord: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation.") The trumpets then begin sounding in the chronological order of the events which they portend. The events of Revelation 12 fall under the sounding of the seventh trumpet, which begins sounding immediately after the sixth trumpet events end (including the two witnesses), and continues sounding with no declared ending. I too believe that the Rev 12 sign is a picture of the rapture of that "one new man" which is Christ and his Body, however, it's placement under the last eschatological trumpet surely should be considered significant.
ReplyDelete