Where Do We Go From Here? - Greg Lauer
I am a little embarrassed to admit this, but I am nearly very behind in sharing this article from Greg Lauer. But God in his perfect wisdom knew these words would hit home after this latest 50 day watch period. He takes a retrospective look at the Revelation 12 Sign and how it was handled by those of us in the Body and shares quite a few good points in my opinion. I don't 100% agree with all of his points (which is no surprise since none of us will ever totally agree this side of heaven on some of these things), but I do think what he shares is worth pondering. I absolutely loved his Christmas analogy and it is very timely as well. I have respected Greg's viewpoint from the very first article I read of his and I think it's worth noting that his takes have been closer to correct than just about anybody up to this point. It's a longer article, but there is a lot of ground to cover and goes by quickly. Please read the whole thing as he ties things together in the end and is hopeful, introspective, and fairly gentle with all of us while saying what he feels needs to be said. Here are some excerpts and a link.
Excerpt 1
(Regarding where we go from here...)
http://www.alittlestrength.com/articles/2017/1710-where-to.htm
The first thing I would say to such people is this: Consider gently easing away from the need for a specific date to look forward to. I know it's human nature to look forward to an exact date—in some ways we almost can't help it. Although biblically based speculation over dates is not wrong per se, when we allow ourselves to get overly hyped up over such a date it can easily become a distraction. When we become fixated on a date, it can negatively impact other aspects of our walk with the Lord.Excerpt 2 (Greg does some introspection about his walk which I can relate to...)
It breaks my heart when I think of the times in the last few years when I got so caught up in speculation over prophetic events that I gave little thought to spending time alone with the Lord in prayer.
It crushes me when I think of how often my study of God's Word was so completely focused on technicalities concerning end-time prophecy that I gave little thought to the fact that the Word of God is the sword of the Spirit and a lamp unto my feet.
And I weep when I think of the times that I was so absorbed in speculation about the Rapture and its timing that I temporarily lost sight of the precious blood that Christ shed for me on the cross that made it possible for this worthless schmuck to be part of it.Here is the Link:
Father forgive me.
http://www.alittlestrength.com/articles/2017/1710-where-to.htm
A fine article and well worth the read. For most of us, I suspect the article will be a bit of balm for a weary soul even though nothing in it will astound any true Watcher. Yes, we will all be more peace filled if we loosen up our grip on the handlebars a bit, relax, enjoy the breeze on our faces and shift our focus back to simply BE-ing with our Messiah, moment by moment. Funny, I am certain that, in doing that, there are still likely to be some exciting twists and turns ahead. Maranatha!
ReplyDeleteI think Greg has a great point of view in his articles....always well thought out (and he makes me laugh...always good!). Greg...hat tip to you sir!
DeleteThank you.
Deletea
DeleteGood stuff.
ReplyDeleteI especially like the line where he says, "If I'd known so many people were going to subscribe to my website, I woulda wrote in more better English." :)
I also like the part where he says,
---
"Following his admonition to watch for the Lord's return in verse 6, Paul rattles off no fewer than 20 specific instructions for believers to be mindful of. Paul describes in some detail here how we should live, and what attitudes and activities should characterize the lives of believers:
1. Be sober.
2. Put on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet of salvation.
3. Exhort one another.
4. Build each other up.
5. Respect and honor those who work to shepherd you.
6. Be at peace among yourselves.
7. Admonish the disorderly.
8. Encourage the fainthearted.
9. Support the weak.
10. Be patient to all.
11. Do not return evil for evil.
12. Always seek the good for one another and for all.
13. Rejoice always.
14. Pray without ceasing.
15. Give thanks for everything and in every situation.
16. Don't quench the Spirit.
17. Don't scoff at prophecies, or treat them with contempt.
18. Test all things.
19. Hold firmly to that which is good.
20. Abstain from every form of evil.
Pop quiz:
Q. What's an instruction that seems to be missing from the above list?
A. Try to pin down the exact day the Lord is coming."
---
I thought the illustration explaining what John probably saw in his vision versus a modern-day star map was a real eye-opener, too.
Finally, his plain and simple admission that he was wrong about certain things in the past, coupled with the detailed analysis of exactly how and where he went wrong, was not only unusual, but extremely helpful in getting us all closer to a sensible approach to interpreting prophesy. We could use a lot more of that kind of thing, as Greg himself points out: "...one thing that has been conspicuously absent is a horde of people coming out and simply saying they were wrong. Color me surprised. What I have seen instead is a lot of people merely retooling their predictions and pressing ahead, focusing attention on the next Jewish feast or date of interest. Rinse and repeat."
God Bless Greg Lauer!
Proverbs 12:1 "He that loves discipline loves knowledge, and he that hates reproof is a fool." Aramaic Bible in Plain English.
DeleteYep, pretty much. Maranatha!
Love Greg Lauer!
ReplyDeleteI read this article when he first posted it.
Reading it again today has double-blessed me. Balm for the soul indeed.
Great thoughts about a great sign. One more thing, I would add. Seeing the sign and following its progess as it seemed to tell a story added more credibility to it as a sign. Even though September 23 was the specified description, we extrapolated the other pieces. Do you think it was wrong to look at the fact that the eclipse pointed to the sign and that the various stages of the sign aligned with other events? To me, it was as if God gave us several affirmations along the way: we had disasters and political events that screamed, yes this is the right season and the sign in Revelation. God is gracious to give us all this. Truth is we should have been faithful without the sign, but He is just so gracious. That is how I see it.
ReplyDeleteYes , the Rev 12 sign opened my eyes to God s story written on the heavens.Maranatha
DeleteReading various comments to do with astronomical signs (and other topics that arise) on this and other posts/threads has helped me in a more positive way in looking for The Blessed Hope (pre-trib rapture) instead of being bogged down by personal circumstances or worldly concerns. After all, we are to love His appearing.
ReplyDeleteAnd, I learn things, read scripture to understand or to consider something as scriptural, if appropriate.
Recently, on other threads/posts it has been made clear that others are occupying until Jesus comes. This site is an interest that is shared by those who comment regularly.
The majority of comments are not advocating looking for signs in the heavens as a command to look up or miss the rapture. Those few who have done so, I basically ignore because my viewpoint is pre-trib and OSAS. I view them as not biblically knowledgeable or spiritually immature. I want to correct them.
I see the work of God as Jesus said - to believe in His Son that he sent.
Everything else that is commented about as to occupying until He comes or commands that others stress from scripture that are to be obeyed - effect our heavenly rewards we receive (or not) that will have eternal value. There will be no do-overs.
I don't think I believe tho that looking at astronomical signs is necessarily looking up and receiving the crown of righteousness for loving His appearance that the Apostle Paul expects - and says is also for those who love His appearing. What does this really mean? Is it a heart issue? And, how this is biblically sound isn't my purpose in writing here.
Others who see those on this site as date-setters, I think need to be less dogmatic on this site in their comments. I am really seeing them this way - and I think it is tiring.
I don't really get at all into heavenly constellations and signs of the rapture. .... But, I have enjoyed reading about them.
I have always thought or read or was taught that the 1/3 of the stars Satan sweeps with his tail are his hordes of demons he brings with him as God finally bans Satan and his minions from Heaven and they are cast down to earth. This could be taking place already in the heavens (as I think Annabelle mentioned) or about to take place in relation to the rapture and Daniel's 70th week.
I think Acts 1:6-7 speaks to the Jewish people and the nation of Israel and Christ setting up His earthly 1,000 year millennium kingdom. This is what the apostles are asking Jesus. His response about the times and seasons not being for them to figure out had to do with this subject and not the rapture. There are biblical instructors/teachers who believe various verses reference the rapture from the Gospels. I just disagree I guess.
Doesn't Jesus also say that those days need to be shortened or no one would survive (to enter the 1,000 year reign)? This seems more applicable to the 7-year tribulation.
Bless those recently who have spoken from their hearts on previous threads/posts.
Cathi
Hi Cathi, I agree with you about most of the things you've said, nice summation, thank you!
Delete"What does this really mean? Is it a heart issue?" I think it is! :--)
DeleteI'm a little surprised anyone linked to this article, since I fully assumed it would officially sound the death knell for my brief pimple of popularity within the Revelation 12 movement and would be swatted away like a pesky fly.
ReplyDeleteAah... Just when I was all set to go back to being my normal rapscallion self in sweet obscurity.
Naturally, my fear is that what I wrote would come across as a bit rebuke-ish, and I honestly didn't mean it to sound that way. But maybe it is. And if it is, so be it. I know many will disagree, and that's OK. But if I can't bring myself to say what I feel needs to be said, I'm wasting my time. And what's worse, yours.
You apologize too much, Greg. If you're not in trouble with God, you're not in trouble.
Deletenah we loved it Greg. When you first posted it, my wife and I thought it was the best 'list of 20' we had seen in a long time. Very good.
DeleteGreg, not at all. The entire Christian Life is a bit of a balancing act and this Rev12 journey no less. Your article is a fine counterbalance to some of us fire breathing, aluminum headband wearing Rapture Freaks and we love the blessing which your call to Christ-centered patience brings. Maranatha!
DeleteGreat stuff, Greg. You should be up to (at least) 91 subscribers now!
DeleteI'm trying to make a list of things we know FOR SURE about the Rapture. Kind of a "Mere Rapture-ology" along the lines of C. S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity." Things that all kinds and sorts of Christians agree about. So help me out, if you will.
ReplyDeleteHere's what I've got so far, based on 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, and 1 Thessalonians 5:6:
1. Some Christians will never die, but will be changed, instantly, into incorruptible beings; and in that state they will ever be with the Lord.
2. The dead in Christ will undergo a similar change not long before that, Jesus bringing them with Him and raising their bodies incorruptible at that time.
3. There will be a cry of command, the voice of an archangel, and the sound of the trumpet of God when this occurs, and we will all meet in the clouds.
4. No one knows when this will happen: the year, month, day and hour are all unknown at this time. But we can still take comfort in knowing these things, and are instructed to encourage one another with these thoughts.
5. In the meantime, we are to persevere in our Christian duties, lest Jesus find us "sleeping" when He arrives. I put "sleeping" in quotes because the use of the word here is obviously metaphorical; surely He doesn't expect us to be physically awake 24/7 from now until then.
Did I miss anything?
What we know...
DeleteWe know that the Lamb is Victorious and in Him we are victorious and nothing can separate us from the love of God. Romans 8.
We know there is a crown of righteousness for those true to the Lord who are longing for His appearing. II Timothy 4.8
We know that no one knows the day or the hour - the timing is in the Father's plan. (We were wrong to ignore this and get our hearts too set on one day).
We know that "there will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars, and on earth anguish and perplexity at the roaring of the seas" Luke 21:25
We know that "when these things begin to come to pass" we are instructed to "look up" and "lift up our heads" for our redemption is drawing near. Luke 21:28
We know that there is a generation that will begin to experience certain signs that when those signs begin to take place, that generation will not pass away till all those things will be fulfilled. Luke 21:32
We know that when they are saying peace and safety, then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail upon a woman with child. I Thess 5, and we know that we are, in Christ, not appointed to wrath but to salvation.
We know that it is more important for believers to love each other and be unified so that the world may know that the Father sent the Son. John 17
And we know that Christ calls us to take up the cross to follow Him and that the evil one is the accuser of the Brethren. And we know that hatred for followers of Jesus will be intense in the end times. And we know that it is very important to the Father's heart that we love one another in the eternal family. And we know that we conquer by the blood of the Lamb, and that it is the Father's good pleasure to give us the Kingdom so even if we lose our lives we don't need to regret it. God is good!
DeleteThanks for the input, "Lamb is Victorious. 4 Ever." I agree that "there is a crown of righteousness for those who love His appearing" and will be adding that to the points I listed earlier. I also agree, as you say, that "...no one knows the day or the hour - the timing is in the Father's plan. (We were wrong to ignore this and get our hearts too set on one day)." Well put, but that was already in the list.
DeleteUnfortunately, I'm not sure everyone agrees that the remainder of your FOR SURE points are definitely and distinctly related to the Rapture. That "nothing can separate us from the love of God," for example, is a good thought to dwell on, but it would be equally true even if there was no such thing as a Rapture. Ditto for your John 17 point about unity being our best witness to the divided world around us.
Reading through various commentaries on biblehub.com, I see that some folks think passages like those you cite from Luke 21 may be addressed, not to Christians at the end of the Age of Grace, per se, but to Tribulation period Jews and/or Christian Jews looking for the destruction of the Temple ('way back around 70 AD). So those points I'm going to leave on the "back burner," for now, watching only to make sure they don't "boil over" without me noticing!
God bless.
PS. I think this kind of "FOR SURE" study is important because it makes us closely study, not just current events, but the Scriptures themselves, and protects us against the silly and the superstitious. For example, a guy on unsealed.org yesterday proposed that 12/31/2017 is a prophetically significant date on the curious grounds that the model number of the gun used in the recent Texas church shootings was 556 -- and he then, without explanation, separated this arbitrary number into two parts, the leading digit (5) and the trailing two (56), added the latter together to get 11, and claimed that this represented the 5th day of the 11th month. He then discarded the leading digit and counted 56 days from that date to arrive at 12/31/2017, claiming this must be "more than coincidence." Now that, to me, sounds like nothing but superstitious nonsense. But apparently ONLY to me since none of the moderators or other posters on that site offered any correction or rebuke.
Interesting and persuasive article here:
ReplyDeletehttps://kielandedmonds.wordpress.com/2017/10/02/mystery-america-the-great-scapegoat/
Thoughts?
Personally I liked this last summary of Jonathan Ferreri most because of mentioning 'Nibiru' of course LOL :) but Gregs article wasn't that bad either. I guess we ought to see this 'searching out' process from GODs perspective after all. Do you honestly think He didn't know from beginning of eternity it would work out this way? So why should we then be embarrassed or rebuking each other for searching out certain dates first? I admit I wouldn't have learned just a fraction about Gods feast days, constellations, blood moons, gospel in the sky, astrophysics and 'Nibiru' if this searching for the rapture would just have gone with this "every day imminency" attitude like I was ever taught before. Besides, Scott Clarkes teachings on 'conception and birth' of the church such as the real endpoint of the 'times of the Gentiles' (i.e. at the end of tribulation, not end of church age!) have corrected some of the most severe traditional teaching errors I've been learning before. Robert Breakers "Tribulation Gospel" finally opened my understanding of Galatians 1:8 and once again confirmed dispensationalism and pre-trib to me. I wouldn't have had all these wonderful experiences of discovery if "There's no looking for dates, nothing to see here, please move along" would have been the name of the game from the start.
ReplyDeletePerhaps there is some difference in watching as well depending on whether you are a brother or a sister. There's indeed a difference in male and female here. I will give an example: if I go shopping somewhere with my husband to buy sth for him or for the house, my hubby's done with this quite easily. He just takes what comes into his field of view first and fits according to his ideas and acceptable price. Whereas I myself am looking everywhere searching for sth that fits my ideas BEST in ALL categories and is even a bargain in addition. OK that takes more time... It CAN happen that I finally return to what has crossed my hubbys way first by coincidence. But I never would have had the full satisfaction to really have checked all options available after all. Sounds familiar to anyone out there? LOL :) well, that's how I look upon Rev12-sign and rapture date from a woman's perspective. Much love and blessings to all the family!
"But I never would have had the full satisfaction to really have checked all options available after all." Sounds good with me, Annabel! :--)
DeleteAnnabel, loved the way you put that. When I go to the store with my husb, he wants to go straight to what we came for, get it and get out. He sees absolutely no need to look around any further and only sees it as a threat to his wallet, LOL.
DeleteBut whether he likes it or not, I'm going to look and he can go sit in the car if he wants to:-)
I read Greg's article several times and I think it probably provided a nice ladder for those who might wish to settle back down to a more grounded normalcy.
I just feel like I am
in a season of transition and I am excited to be here, looking with prayer and discernment at anything and everything the Lord is willing to let me see. For me, the Rev 12 sign was a confirmation of where I already knew we were. There was and is so much more to this sign and this time frame. I was doing a study this morning on ladders and stairs. Ladder mentioned only once and He is standing above it in ( Gen. 28:12 ). And (Song of Sol. 3:2-4 ) made my heart sing.
Much love to you and the Body as well!
Nope. Not familiar. My wife chooses quickly and hates taking the time to make a decision based on a thorough consideration. I, on the other hand, do typically make my decisions, even when shopping, very meticulously. I do believe that your version is more typical of the general population (especially because you are talking about shopping). But, defining gender roles based on shopping and the way decisions are made is a slippery slope. I would instead say what you are talking about is related more to personality. I know men and women who make quick decisions without needing to weigh all options, and I know men and women who make decisions based on weighing all options. I do not believe one is better than the other. There is real value in both approaches.
DeleteMore importantly, regarding how we approach prophecy, I feel the female and male perspectives are incredibly useful. I do see a difference at times, but I do not know how to define that difference. I just know that we complement one another.
Agree Miguel. My wife comes home with a box of chocs and normally a bag of marshmallows for the kids when she goes shopping...I hate marshmallows. Why feed your family things that are unhealthy and only going to rot their teeth and ruin their pancreas! Yet, my wife seems to know exactly when we are about to run out of toothpaste, whereas that misses my list every time. Its the same with our perspective on the end-times. I hate the crap we get fed, but I am careful to read everything once to see if there is wisdom to be gleaned. My wife, on the other hand, doesn't 'care much' for what is happening in the near future (regarding events and interpreting scripture) for the return of the Lord, but she does remind me often "what are doing for Jesus today Ryan". Thank you Jesus for my wife!
DeleteTouché, Miguel.
DeleteAnnabel says, "Perhaps there is some difference in watching as well depending on whether you are a brother or a sister. There's indeed a difference in male and female here."
DeleteDJ replies, No doubt. Perhaps the kind of thing Paul had in mind when he wrote 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12. Not to mention Jesus' own rebuke/warning in Revelation 2:20.
Digging your own grave here DJ.
Deletehttps://www.gotquestions.org/misogyny-Bible.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/God-Bible-sexist.html
This will get you started.
Women are just as intelligent, just as Christlike, just as loved by God, and Christ as any man. And their opinions, thoughts, and perspectives are essential. And that is an understatement.
Wow
DeleteI knew that was coming sooner or later. Just didn't know how long it would take to come out. And as in times past, I only have a two word response to it.
DeleteMary Magdalene.
Miguel dear brother TY very much for your reply, much appreciated! I didn't want to generalize and yes you're certainly right about personality. The comparison about shopping surely was flawed too. I just wanted to express how men and women experience things differently. You are right that we ought to complement each other which is already based in Genesis 2:18-20 .
DeleteSometimes I got the impression of Mark 16:9-14 or some John 20:25 if I read the diverse perspective and feelings about "dissappointment" (mostly from brothers!) regarding the 'coming and going' of 9/23 throughout the comments. To me personally there's no reason to be disappointed at all as this might be the sin of murmuring against Gods perfect plan and I won't support any sort of "disappointment" on the LORDs return. On the other hand I very much feel with brother Todd YTC "It is finished" in his latest video. I DAILY feel that way now. That's what makes me occupy with digging in Rev12:2-4 (approaching verse 5) so much because I cannot do anything else. At my place, there's but Revelation 22,11 yet. Much love, MARANATHA!
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteDear Miguel, thank you so much for your kind and supporting words! It means much to me, the Lord bless you!
DeleteDJ,
DeleteI remember a sermon I’ve listened to maybe 2 years ago, it was titled “A different perspective” and it was about women’s role in the Church. I’ll never forget what I’ve heard in that sermon. Among other things, I’ve learned that in Genesis, when the Bible says that God made a *helper* to man, in the original Hebrew text, the word for *helper* is a very unique expression that is only used 2 or 3 other times in the entire Bible and in these other cases the Lord God uses that unique Hebrew expression only in description and relation to: Himself! That’s how highly our Creator esteems women! (If I ever find that sermon again, I’ll be happy to link it.) Also, I’d just like to add that In Jesus Christ there’s no longer male or female, Jewish or Greek. I think that verse talks about our equal worth in the Lord. Lastly but not lastly, if you read the Book of Acts for example, you’ll notice that several women were in important, high positions in the early Church. For an Old Testament example, I could mention one of Israel’s Judges: Deborah(from the era of judges).
And yes, the man is the head of the woman just like Christ to the Church. But that does not diminish the things I previously said in this comment. Let’s just add that in the original Greek text “the head” also have an important and primary meaning as the body part which is nurturing and growing the entire body, while in other languages the primary meaning of “the head” is always and only the hierarchical position.
Greg L.,
ReplyDeleteI’ve found a lot of thought provoking and refreshing perspectives in your article, things good to take to heart, thank you! I see this topic mostly in the same light as you but there are a few things (and observations) I’d like to add. The notion of figuring out the exact date of the rapture as a direct command of the Lord… Several watchers are researching possible timelines, dates, and/or other possibilities but so far I haven’t seen this embraced that way (taken like a literal command), at least by those I’m paying attention to. Not saying that there couldn’t be people with such views! It’s also true that what feels like date-setting to some is not so for others. But I agree with you that we shouldn’t be “super-focused” on specific dates and trying to pin-point them as candidates for the rapture! Seeing those dates coming and going could be emotionally exhausting. I think basically the same about calculated tribulation timelines; it’s most likely too complex for human calculations! I also agree that Biblically sound speculation on/ consideration of possibilities and ideas and discussing them with each other are all right. I have to admit that while I’m leaning toward the notion that we won’t know the exact day of the rapture, the jury is still out for me on that. There are good reasons why the Lord might want that day to be a secret, on the other hand, for example there’s the case of the prophet Elijah who knew the exact day of his *rapture*, which is one of the reasons why I’m not super sure that we won’t know it, perhaps not the exact date of it but the extreme closeness of it. (Although, we could surely say that we’re now in the season of the rapture and the *Rev 12 constellation* was a confirmation of it and an *exist sign* as you put it and again, I agree.) There’s one more thing. I assume, you agree with me (based on your previous articles on the topic of salvation) that being aware of the season of the rapture and watching for the rapture isn’t a salvation issue. I’m not saying the following personally “against” you (it’s not even meant as an *against*) just in general that while I’m aware that admonitions and correcting others in love (!) are often greatly needed, I’d like to point it out that basically, we’re all falling short of the Lord’s Holy Standards. From heavenly-perspective we’re all carnal and worldly. I’m not encouraging anyone to stop walking with the Lord, far from it! I’d just like to put some things into perspective because I have to admit, at times I don’t like the way how *shame* is directed to others. It’s vital to point out biblically incorrect attitudes, my problem is not with that but the condemning and/or judging the person himself/herself, their spiritual status and especially their hearts which is solely the Lord’s territory, I believe so. Okay, that was a bit off-topic, sorry! Just felt the need to add it. Another (even if a bit similar) topic is that, imo, we could only guess which things will be the ones that believers will be ashamed of when the Lord appears (I agree, this fact alone totally blows away the partial-rapture theory, or should I say heresy). Instead of guessing, I’d like to leave it in the Lord’s hands as well, but if I had to take a guess, abusive behavior toward fellow believers (when people are “beating up others with their tongues” for ex.) would be on that list. While I’m not saying it couldn’t be so, I’d rather guess on something else than trying to figure out the date of the rapture too hard. :--)
(typo correction: *exit sign*)
Delete(part2.) Lastly, we’re still in this flesh (sadly) and the clear “heavenly-perspective” will be only ours after the rapture, so as for now we see through a glass darkly. Because of that I’d be a tad bit more cautious with the notion of “polishing our resumes” and focusing on our future positions in Heaven! The thing is: aside from tiny glimpses in the Scriptures we don’t know much at all about our future heavenly way of life, we only know that it will be wonderful beyond our current imagination. One more thing we could be sure of: Heaven will be different than the way this world is working and like it or not, our minds are still infested with worldly-way of thinking. That’s why I’d propose that our focus should be on maintaining a close, intimate, loving relationship with the Lord and the rest will follow within His will, instead of focusing on “earning” a future position in Heaven. Dear Greg, you might meant something completely different -concerning our resume-, I don’t know for sure, I hope I didn’t offend you with saying that! I just think that concentrating on things like this in general could cause too much focus on one’s own self (which could often lead to undesirable outcomes). Sorry that this comment turned out so long, Lord bless!
ReplyDeletep.s.: Last addition to the last part (topic) of my comment. When the disciples asked Jesus in eager anticipation which one of them will sit at His right hand in Heaven, He corrected their way of thinking. Again, please don’t get me wrong Greg, I’m not saying that you wrote with this attitude in mind about *polishing our resumes* for Heaven, I’m just adding this example for the sake of caution concerning our focus.
DeleteAmen Nora we see in part. Nevertheless we have complete trust in the Lord.
DeleteNora dear sister beloved TY very much for your thoughts in addition to Gregs article(s) which to me seem sometimes somewhat framed 'slightly bitter' in tone for exact those reasons you just mentioned. This might not be intended by our dear brother who indeed uses his native language brilliantly eloquent to describe a matter exhaustively but it may not always come across so much lovingly like e.g. the apostle John expressed himself. So Greg forgive me as well and I know we all are expressing our love for the LORD in different ways, tempers and from diverse perspective and background but I feel the same about most of your articles as what sister Nora has added to above in full length. That's what it makes it hard for me to deal with them mostly. Much love and blessings also from my part, YSIC :)
DeleteNora, you expressed the "issues in my heart" so well. Thank you and blessings, Sister!
DeletePraise to the Lord! :--)
DeleteAnnabel, just heard on cable news that ISIS has threatened an attack the Pope/Vatican on Christmas Day. Reminded me of the St. Malachy prophecies of the final Pope. Thought it was an interesting development.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I disagree with some of the article I appreciate much of what Greg said and his willingness to share his heart, as I've said some similar prayers lately. I'd like to point out some realities in my life regarding the sign and maybe some of you can relate: 1. The sign woke me up from a Luke warm faith and now my relationship with Christ draws deeper and more tangible each day. For that I thank God! 2. The sign was the sign and in light of knowing it occurred we have reason to live even more eagerly waiting for Him to return. 3.We'd be more foolish to ignore the many signs than test them and be excited at the possible implications of them. 4. Faith has never hung on signs, for we are blessed since we believe and have not yet seen Him! 5. Even if the sign had not happened, the current world events are more than enough reason to have us eagerly looking to the heavens for our Messiah.
ReplyDeleteKeep awake brothers and sisters, stay in the word and in prayer. Continue faithfully in the race as we have our sights set on the object of life, and run toward our Christ sharing the news all the way!
One more thing, the fact that the sign has come and gone has only taught me to trust in His perfect plan and timing that much more. He is near, rest in that and live joyfully. God bless u all
DeleteRob, I can relate to all your 5 points!
DeleteYes, yes, yes, yes and yes.
DeleteWell said Rob!
DeleteAmen Rob! MARANATHA!!
DeleteThank you, Rob!
DeleteWhat I am about to write is not a statement to anyone in particular. It is not aimed at Greg or DJ or anyone else. It is just my current commentary regarding prophecy and the community.
ReplyDeleteI am going to take a strong stance here. Anyone who wants to can stand with me. If you need to correct me, question me, or even persecute me, that's okay too. Because I do it for the Lord. The season of the rapture appears to be NOW. It does not appear to be in 100 years or so, and I do not believe scripture indicates in any way that it is bad to dig in to prophetic scripture. If that changes, I can adjust. Ignoring the season is something I cannot do. Prophetic scripture in the Bible is still becoming clearer. There is a lot we do not know still. It motivates me to study prophecy, to discuss it in these groups, so I am going to keep doing it. I am going to relax and enjoy the journey, and I am going to take the time I have left on earth to live obediently for Christ in every way. I also have time to share the gospel, read scripture that is not in the prophecy category, listen to praise and worship music, go to church, work (I am an information security architect), love my wife and children and to do quite a few other things.
The topic of motivation is crucial here. We are all different and therefore are motivated differently. Our loving Father knows this and He is gracious, so He caters to that. Look at the number of motivators He gives us: 1. His death for us motivates us to die for Him, 2. His mercy and forgiveness motivates us to forgive, 3. His compassion motivates us to be compassionate, 4, His perfection motivates us to aim for perfection, 5, His promise of returning for us motivates us to not "sleep", 6. His prophecy, parables, and layering of information in His Word motivates us to look harder, 7 etc etc etc.. There are many many more. We are given many things that motivate us and these are all acceptable to God, so long as our primary focus is Christ Himself. If we try to tell people that they cannot learn more than they already know about His return other than "He will come back SOME day", then we are eliminating one of the motivators Christ Himself gave. I can see where that would dishearten many and is not a complete truth.
Finally, There are two extremes when it comes to timing. One extreme is that we cannot know anything about the timing of the rapture. The other extreme is that we can know the exact day and time of the rapture. I think both of these extremes are wrong. The right answer is somewhere in the middle. So, we keep waiting and watching, joyfully, expectantly, and resolutely knowing that no matter when it happens, we are grateful to be in His care now and then.
I love all you guys -- Greg, DJ, Nora, Annabel, Cathi, Rob, Gary, Hillary, Kieland, Shiela, VeeBee, Through and Through, anonymous and the many whom I have not named.
Amen, Miguel, Lord bless! :--)
DeleteMiguel, man am I thankful for your presence in this forum. I for one stand with you in everything you said. You clearly stated my exact sentiments, and your motivational points really rang true in my spirit. I don't know you but through your words I felt connected in everything from being a husband, and father to the sincerity and commitment to your calling. I'll do well to pay closer attention to your future posts. Thank you.
DeleteRob, wow! What a kind endorsement. I am just trying to be the toe that I am in the body of Christ. Bless you brother. Bless you too, sister Nora!
DeleteMiguel P says, "There are two extremes when it comes to timing. One extreme is that we cannot know anything about the timing of the rapture. The other extreme is that we can know the exact day and time of the rapture. I think both of these extremes are wrong. The right answer is somewhere in the middle."
DeleteI agree. So let's search out that happy medium together, so our "moderation" (KJV) and "reasonableness" (ESV) will be seen by all men, Philippians 4:5.
Please help me, brothers and sisters, with my list of things we know FOR SURE about the Rapture. Things about which the Holy Spirit has brought us all into unity.
Here's what I've got so far, based on 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, and 1 Thessalonians 5:6:
1. Some Christians will never die, but will be changed, instantly, into incorruptible beings; and in that state they will ever be with the Lord.
2. The dead in Christ will undergo a similar change not long before that, Jesus bringing them with Him and raising their bodies incorruptible at that time.
3. There will be a cry of command, the voice of an archangel, and the sound of the trumpet of God when this occurs, and we will all meet in the clouds.
4. No one knows when this will happen: the century, decade, year, month, day and hour are all unknown at this time. But we can still take comfort in knowing the things listed above, and are instructed to encourage one another with such thoughts.
5. In the meantime, we are to persevere in our Christian duties, lest Jesus find us "sleeping" when He arrives. I put "sleeping" in quotes because the use of the word here is obviously metaphorical; surely He doesn't expect us to be physically awake 24/7 from now until then.
What did I miss?
Those are well balanced and loving words, Miguel. Shoulder to shoulder, Brothers and Sisters. Blessings to you and yours and the whole Body of Christ as we expect Him at the most perfect of moments!
DeleteBy the way, I'm making this list so we will all know what things are "safe" to share with unbelievers and less mature believers. Things that other Christians they meet won't contradict. Things that won't sound foolish after this or that date or event. Things that both we and they can count on. Things that will make the Oneness of the Body, the Unity of the Spirit among Christians evident, and thus make our words an effective witness to the world, John 17:23
DeleteDJ, remove #4, as currently worded, and then the list works. As now stated, #4 is too dogmatic and broad and, surely among many Watchers, contrary to the Teachings of the Word in some points. Maranatha!
DeleteThe "middle of the road" approach that I think we're referring to is the doctrine of imminency. Imminency doesn't disqualify the signs of our Lords return as He outlined in such depth, nor do the signs negate imminency. The signs point to the His nearness. Just because a sign happens on a date, that doesn't mean we shouldn't get excited at the prospect of the possibility of the rapture coinciding, as the rapture not occurring in conjunction should not be a discouragement as Paul stated that it is nearer today that before! The picture of the wedding is the picture of our rapture. We don't know exactly when the Father will say to our Lord, go get your bride, but we know because of the MANY signs that the redemption is very near and He is almost finished preparing our places! As the signs happen we should point back to those dates and events as evidence and motivation, not point forward to dates so certainly. Our hope is in Christ not dates, and the truth that His words are coming to pass validate His word and sanctify our faith. Who wouldnt be excited!? We can and should be saying to others, "He is coming soon!" Something most church's are afraid to be mocked for declaring. The blessed hope is true, sacred, and ours to look forward to. Don't hold these things in contempt, thank God for them all! Amen
DeleteJimboni says, "...remove #4, as currently worded, and then the list works. As now stated, #4 is too dogmatic and broad and, surely among many Watchers, contrary to the Teachings of the Word in some points. "
DeleteFor ease of reference, this is point #4:
"No one knows when this will happen: the century, decade, year, month, day and hour are all unknown at this time. But we can still take comfort in knowing the things listed above, and are instructed to encourage one another with such thoughts."
I reply, Okay, but I don't think we should delete the point, only correct it. Here's the revised version (I need you to fill in the blank):
"Christians everywhere agree than the Rapture will take place _______. We can take comfort in knowing this, and are instructed to encourage each other with this thought. And, make (or don't make) plans accordingly.
Rob says, "We can and should be saying to others, 'He is coming soon!'"
DeleteBut then the other person, if he's actually listening, asks, "How soon?" And what do we say to that?
DJ, I appreciate your desire to formulate ideas that are "safe" doctrinally speaking, but I don't see any problems in any teachIngs except date setting. Imminency only becomes more imminent as time goes by and signs and events that echo Prophecy occur. Like I said, if we're still here then the dates are there to point at in hindsight in reference to the fulfillment of "last things" scripture and the future implications. It's ok to have differing beliefs on when it occurs in relation to the tribulation, as long as we're all seeking the truth, and share our views with love, tenderness and respect for where others are at in their sanctification and understanding. And most of all, as long as it's building up the body all for God's glory.
DeleteDJ, to the unbeliever who asks with sincerity I say, let's start at the gospel, and if you receive that and really want to understand how close we are to the rapture let's go back and start at Israel becoming a nation again and make our way to the Rev 12 signs and current geo-political climate especially the push for a peace deal and the stage that's set for the Ezekiel 38/39 war. Saddle up! His word is true and everlasting!
DeleteDJ I would even add to that that it could happen today- nothing has to happen before the rapture. That's imminency. We can and should wake up every morning saying, "maybe today Lord, but never the less your will be done". Then check to see what happened in the world while we were sleeping as it relates tim his word, and go about our day growing, occupying, abiding, sharing, fellowshipping, etc. as we live our lives.
DeleteTo me, I've known no better way to live as my watchfulness means the reason of hope and Joy in the midst of life's trials is real. Christ returning is Real to me- it's never been more real and life has never been so sweet. I don't get that from my church so I know God is blessing us through the spirit, revealing his nearness to us. Another reason I love sites like this and Unsealed- fearless, and open the whole of Gods word. 2 Peter 1:18-19.
I'm with ya, Rob. I'm going to repeat something I just wrote to Miguel on another thread, because I think it's pertinent here.
DeleteAs you may know from my "Don't Know When" song, I've been watching and waiting since 1982. What probably doesn't come across in my posts is that I still get excited, from time to time, about current-day signs and wonders. Just yesterday, for example, the spread of the plague in Madagascar and the meteor seen burning up over Phoenix, Arizona caught my eye. And it doesn't take much fiddling with the buttons on https://earthquake.usgs.gov/ to see that the earth is LITERALLY "coming apart at the seams" these days. But it does seem a little perverse for one to be cheered up by plagues, meteors, and earthquakes, doesn't it?
More positively, it strikes me that many Jews are way more open to the Gospel than back in 1982 -- think, for example, of Jonathan Cahn's books and ministry -- and this seems to me to be laying the groundwork for Israel's re-grafting into the Olive Tree after they have been provoked to jealousy by our sudden (but predicted) disappearance. Now that's a "sign" we don't have to just watch -- we can witness to Jews personally, and contribute to ministries who do.
Perhaps we should be focusing on POSITIVE signs that we can do something about. After all, if the world is "going to hell in a handbasket" around us, isn't it still our job to try to fix the little part we can fix and be a light in the darkness, rather than just sit back and say, 'Well, the whole thing is doomed anyway. I'm glad I won't be here to experience it." And then go looking for reports of natural disasters, political upheavals, wars, plagues, and demon-inspired craziness, etc.
Now regarding the unbeliever who asks, "How soon?" Isn't the simple and truthful answer just, "We don't know. Could be today, could be a hundred years off. Personally, I think _____. Let me show you from the Bible where I get that idea." I think that's pretty much what you said yourself, above. But it's technically different that your original statement, "He is coming soon!" Personally, I still like the paradoxically "vague but certain" way I said it in my song:
Don't know when, but I know He's comin': (Acts 1:11)
I know He will 'cause He said He would - (John 14:1-4)
He gave me His promise and I know His promise is good.
Don't know why, but I know He loves me: (John 3:16)
He died and rose just to make me His own - (John 10:15-18)
Yes, He came before and He's comin' back to take me home. (John 15:13)
http://godlychristianmusic.com/music/play2.aspx?id=3012&type=song.mp3
Beautiful song brother; it's always encouraging to see others using their gifts for God's glory.
DeleteI see where you're coming from on the tragedies plaguing the earth as I've had those thoughts too, but it's good to understand that while we should absolutely rejoice and praise him in the goodness He gives us, We shouldn't avoid reality. The more tragedy we see the longer our prayer list gets (Maybe one day I'll actually be able to pray without ceasing). In those prayers regarding the tragedy I find myself compelled to pray for God to mean it for good; that it would be used to bring the reality of God's judgment to others and they would repent. I find comfort knowing the children and others in Christ are glorified with him. In the end, these things must happen, and His plan is perfect- even so Come Lord! The sooner He does the sooner the tragedy ends.
There is opportunity to be found in such disasters, that a warning can be made and judgement doesn't just come so swiftly, but gives opportunity for repentance. Another reason I wish Churches would be more bold in Prophetic news happenings like JD Farag and Amir Tsarfati, etc. the time is at hand and the alarm needs to be sounded.
Rob,
DeleteReading your thoughts on the rapture and your approach on watching, I think we’re very much on the same page! :--)
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteRob, I am on the same page too.
DeleteI sense we are all growing. Growth...when you take a step back and think about what you were like more than a day or two ago and you have more leaves and blooms and more roots. Praise the Lord He is growing me!
Part of our current discussion is: How do we properly share this prophetic understanding with the world around us? This is a wonderful question that we are working through and you have offered some beautiful wisdom. Only have time for a short answer currently. More soon.
Miguel, reading along & I came to this part: "I am going to relax and enjoy the journey" and immediately went YESSS! Alleluia! and copied it for a reply, and then happened to see my name further down. What a kindhearted message, and timely. Thank you and God bless you. We are in this together and it's a blessing to support & encourage while being supported and encouraged. Truly the work of a body. Thank you!
DeleteI love that we are all working through this together. I love that some of the ideas surprise me, and some offend me, and some challenge me to my core, and some make me laugh. It's just growth. One of the first scriptures that spoke to me ever was Proverbs 1:7. It says fearing God is the BEGINNING of wisdom. It told me two things: first that unless I had a proper fear or reverence of God, then I had no real knowledge or wisdom. Second, that that would only get me started, so there was much more learning to be had. Thirty years later and here I am in my forties learning so much. Thank you for your kind words.
DeleteThanks for sharing this with your readers. Greg has a great writing style sprinkled with humor and a humble way of stating his positions. “The Long Arm of the Lord” is one of my favorites as I have a childhood friend that also died. Unlike Greg did with his friend, I never found out if my friend accepted Christ. I appreciate you linking to his Oct article on your blog, especially since you “don't 100% agree with all of his points”.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if you would consider sharing other blogs that don’t agree with your points. Joel Joseph, for example, is one who (staunchly) disagreed with the Rev 12 sign (or any other subsequent alignments) as an indicator for the rapture. His writing tone isn’t on par with Greg’s and his positions don’t come across quite as humble (to put it mildly). But, he’s been right though out the recent Rev 12 watch. I do like that he points to other signs that have to occur on earth, specifically with Israel, before we can get on high alert.
This is not to be confrontational, just a thought to open up to different opinions. Many of the articles and video’s you share have a similar message and may nurture a herd mentality.
How close must we be? If this article is true and if I am understanding prophecy correctly, we are about to be snatched away. Can't tell you the day, or week, but this'll preach! Can I get an amen?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5089229/Saudi-Arabia-king-set-hand-crown-son.html
Yes, Miguel. And especially since the Russian foreign minister announced yesterday that Iran and Hezbollah were a legitimate presence on the ground in Syria and basically warned that an attack on either was an attack on Russia. It was a warning to Israel against any further strikes against them.
DeleteIt can't be too far off.
Maranatha!
Also looked at reports of something like 1500 big fireballs seen in over 10 nations around the world just yesterday. thesechristiantimes has article on that. Many occurred in Germany. Loud booms and weird skies in Alabama and elsewhere. Yep, keep looking up!
DeleteBlessings, All!
Am glad you pointed that out Miguel. I had read something similar on DEBKA.com, and was amazed how 'to the point' it was about Sauds preparation for war with Iran. Another 'book of Daniel' prophesy fulfilment is on the very near horizon!
DeleteShiela - can you point out any further info on the 1500 fireballs. Sounds interesting.
Hi Ryan and Sheila - just did a quick research: it wasn't 1,500 fireballs but eyewitness REPORTS from them. It were 2 of them seen in the US, 1 over France and 1 over Germany. Here's an article from the Washington Post 11/15 covering this story. Blessings! :)
DeleteHEY CREW, I had read yesterday about the fireballs also. But Tuesday I think it was or Wednesday that boom in Alabama was definitely for real . My husband was home around 1:40 pm when it happened it shook the entire house so bad and rattled doors and windows he said he thought it had to be dynamite or a meteor it had that rough of an impact. And scared my dogs really bad. we live in central Alabama about 30 minutes north of Birmingham. It was felt and heard in 3-4 different counties that we know of. I work in lower end of Birmingham in a huge hospital so although I did not hear or feel anything people in the other end of Birmingham said they did . If we are not on the cusp of his return within days or weeks or a few months at best, then I wonder how much worse it can get. I would say things are starting to get really frightfully scary now , but I know the same God that hung those moon and stars that gave us the sign is the same God that still has everything going right according to his plan .. now if only WE could figure that out exactly. MARANATHA DONNA
DeleteHere is the link to the article Sheila B referenced:
Deletehttp://www.thesechristiantimes.com/2017/11/16/scary-skies-alabama-rocked-by-loud-booms-balls-of-fire-and-bizarre-clouds/
Watch the embedded video for more information. Speculation is that they were part of a meteor shower.
Hey Guys, Guess I was tired last night and didn't listen right. I heard "1500 fireballs reported over US and Europe." instead of "1500 reports of..." Sorry for that big blooper. Mrmbb33 talked about it on thesechristiantimes.com. I should've googled it, but instead I went to bed. I had the rip roaring 5 yr old all day and overnight and he wears this old grandma's brain down.
DeleteDonna N, we have family in the Montgomery area. I'll have to check in with them. Blessings!
I've read a comment above that deals with how we should rather watch for "positive" events and couldn't really be cheered up by bad news - now honestly I dont expect this to happen at the VERY END of endtimes as there's no "positive" news at all when people are just evil 24/7 in the 'days of Noah' and global cataclysms increase... So I guess we'll witness 1,500 meteors instead of reports only during 1 night soon :) but again the LORD tells us "FEAR NOT!" because it is indeed SCRIPTURAL for Christians to cheer up at these breaking news Luke 21:25-28 ! We are told to watch BAD news to CHEER UP! MARANATHA :=D
DeleteAnnabel, I keep coming back to this comment and need to say I agree. It reminds me of the way Paul rejoiced in his suffering because He saw through it and saw the work of God. What may very well turn us all into shining lights in the darkness is that when others are fainting in fear, we are smiling and looking up. The dichotomy (people who are fearful vs people who are excited about His return in the clouds) that these events could cause is something that excites me. I do not gloat or take joy in the suffering around us but look forward to opportunities as others seek answers when the world fully falls apart. Assuming that it happens that way.
DeleteMiguel dear brother that's the difference between worldly GLOATING and Matthew 5:6 :))
DeleteHello, family! :) I'd like to point out Daniel Matsons latest article on 11/19 please notify! Blessings, have an awesome day :)
ReplyDeleteThank you, Annabel! With everything going down in the ME, I am so grateful Daniel Matson is staying on it. You have a great day as well!
DeleteDJ,
ReplyDelete“And yes, I am a person with "a high IQ but limited emotional intelligence." But I don't see how that's pertinent.”
Emotional intelligence is basically about empathy. Scriptural example of empathy: “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.” (Hebrews 4:15) Empathy is an integral part of mere human love, therefore we can confidently assume that it is even more so in the case of the agape love of God. Having empathy also enables us to being merciful to others. No offense, but I think that your concept of “tough love” is misguided. If the Lord applied that approach (of “tough love”) on us, we wouldn’t survive! The new commandment Jesus gave us, the first and most important commandment is to love the Lord your God and to love your brethren! Loving each other is all about how we handle each other in words and in deeds. And please make no mistake about it, love is also a feeling, the Lord Himself has feelings too! With all due respect, Saint Francisco isn’t the writer of the Bible; he -just like all of us- is a human being who could be wrong at times. Also, on the contrary: rudeness is often mistaken with the misguided concept of “tough love” and “being sincere”. I’ve witnessed the approach of “tough love” in words and actions before and it’s not fitting in 1 Corinthians 13. Besides empathy, gentleness and humbleness are also important components of the kind of love the Lord set before us as the example we should follow and apply in our relationships. It is something our flesh is very much against, so the Lord’s mercy, love and help are greatly needed in learning the ways of agape love! Maintaining an intimate and loving relationship with the Lord is (again) the key to that because He is our source of love, and we should be connected to Him to let that love flow through us and overflowing us, it could reach others. That would be the ideal way, sadly our fallen human nature is often (if not always) an obstacle in different degrees. Thankfully the Lord is merciful, He understands that, knowing how we were made, that “we are dust”, connecting Psalm 103 describing the Lord’s compassion on us back to Hebrews 4:15. Prayerfully considering 1 Corinthians 13 is a good start, reading it several times and asking the Lord to reveal all its hidden treasures through His Holy Spirit. Our human intellect is never enough when it comes to the Word of God, so the Holy Spirit’s help is always needed.
(p.s.: Hebrews 4:15 is the Bible verse I've quoted at the start of my comment above, not the part of Hebrews 4 what the "hover-over window" is showing.)
DeleteWe're so far apart, Nora, that I don't think the gap can be bridged by posts on a forum dedicated to other topics. So I'm going to refrain from a detailed reply. I don't like to see my musical hero Don Francisco disrespected, however, so I will post this clarification:
DeleteNora says, "With all due respect, Saint Francisco isn’t the writer of the Bible; he -just like all of us- is a human being who could be wrong at times."
I reply, Yes, Don Francisco isn't the writer of the Bible -- but he is the writer of a wide variety of truly excellent, insightful, and inspirational Christian songs. His best known is probably "He's Alive." Here are the lyrics to the song in question, along with a link to the recorded version:
LOVE IS NOT A FEELING by Don Francisco
So you say you can't take it, the price is too high
Your feelings have gone; it seems your river's run dry
You never imagined it could turn out so rough
You give and give and give and still it's never enough
Your emotions have vanished, that once held a thrill
The wonder of love could be alive in you still
The ring on your finger was put there to stay
You'll never forget the words you promised that day
Jesus didn't die for you because it was fun
He hung there for love because it had to be done
And in spite of the anguish His work was fulfilled
Cause love is not a feelin' it's an act of your will
Love is not a feelin' it's an act of your will
Now I wouldn't try to tell you that it's easy to stand
Satan's throwin' everything that's at his command
But Jesus is faithful, His promise is true
And the things that He asks He gives the power to do
You know He didn't die for you because it was fun
He hung there for love because it had to be done
And in spite of the anguish His work was fulfilled
Cause love is not a feelin' it's an act of your will
Love is not a feelin' it's an act of your will
Love is not a feelin' it's an act of your will
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKbHFMADh8Y
Nora dear sister I don't wanna mess up with your conversation but in fact the term "empathy" is mostly used by secular (atheist) psychologists in this world today so please discern this from biblical COMASSION or MERCIFUL LOVE. The bible says that NO ONE can in fact "feel" with another person Proverbs 14:10 You are both talking about two different things actually. What love does is always talking TRUTH 1 Corinthians 13:6 and sometimes talks "hard speech" too John 6:60 so that those who cannot stand it will draw back from Jesus. That's why you talk at cross purposes here. Godly love is in fact an act of will but of the will of God only. To act "agape" you've got to refrain from your own (human) will and let God work His will through you Philippians 2:13 Just for notification. Much love and blessings! I'm out again. :)
DeleteAnnabel,
DeletePersonally, I don't have problem with the word *empathy* in itself (used in Hebrews 4:15 as well). *Compassion* and *mercy* are also fine with me. Hard speech doesn’t equal the lack of love and compassion, crassness and/or not being considerate toward another person. I stand by what I previously said.
(p.s.: I see another trasnlation uses "symphatize" in Hebrews 4:15. I guess it depends on the translation.)
DeleteI think there is room here for both Annabel and Nora to be right...I agree with Nora that empathy is biblical, but I also agree with Annabel that we have to make sure our definition of love follows the Bible and not the worldly definitions. Am I correctly understanding you both?
DeleteI see lots of empathy when I read John 11 about Lazarus. It says Jesus was deeply moved and he wept. Although there are layers to this, I believe empathy is one. He could have just laughed at their lack of faith and then raised him from the dead and told them how immature their lack of faith was, if empathy was entirely useless. For Annabel's point, I would cite the story of the Samaritan woman at the well. Jesus got right to the point of her relationships and did not offer her any rationalization which is what worldly empathy does. Ultimately, our discussion about love started because DJ seemed to have responded to Annabel in a way that did not sit well with at least a few of us. I am over it though. Peace.
Miguel,
Delete“…we have to make sure our definition of love follows the Bible and not the worldly definitions.”
Yes, that’s the reason why I mentioned 1 Corinthians 13.
Nora, I understood that and was not implying that you were not following a biblical definition. Is my comment unhelpful? I will gladly remove it if it doesn't make sense or help.
DeleteNora I understand what you mean but in my (German) language the term "Empathie" is indeed mostly (ab)used in modern child pedagogics and psychology to apply it on "social skills" in complete ignorance of Proverbs 14:10. In fact ONLY Jesus knows the heart and inner feelings of a person, nobody else does. "Love" is mostly misinterpreted in the world by tolerating sin in covering it up with hypocrite friendliness and sugar-coated "understanding" of a person. That's not what true biblical love is. Again, I see your point too and there's always a right way and time to speak a word in wisdom Proverbs 15:23 + 25:11 (look at Jobs friends too not talking at all for a whole week expressing their deep "empathy" for him!), I only wanted to remark how your conversation talked at cross-purposes IMO. But I didn't want to mess up with it. Much love to you!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteDear Miguel,
DeleteI get you and Annabel, no problem! :--) The Lord dealt with our sins on the cross. He paid in full for all of them and covered all of them with His blood. My point is that Christian brethren should keep in mind 1 Corinthians 13 and exhortations, corrections and admonitions should happen in that manner.
DJ,
ReplyDeleteI didn’t know about Don Francisco, I’m not from the USA. I thought you referred to Saint Francisco the monk (and I’m not aware of being disrespectful in what I said). Even so, the Bible far outweighs in authority anyone else. As I mentioned, love is also an emotion and the Lord has feelings too. However, we are sinful human beings who indeed shouldn’t depend on our feelings but let the Holy Spirit guide us, submitting to Him in everything. Oftentimes, we have to act and speak contrary to our feelings. I mean all of that as a part of what I’ve previously said to you. I agree about avoiding arguments.
Dear Nora in fact I came across Don Francisco's music and lyrics via internet after being saved in 2005 (I'm not US citizen either) but his main creative period was already back in 1970-80 and I did many recordings as he offered them for free by then as mp3 files. We were singing his songs all day then, really good stuff. Never found such a fine lyrics so much scriptural in (contemporary) Christian music again! Very highly recommended indeed! {thumbs up}
DeleteYo, Annabel! I'm thinking, if we're going to get Nora interested in Don Francisco's songs, we should start with something she'll be able to relate to, such as this one:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE7U3yKRHKY
Annabel says, "Never found such a fine lyrics so much scriptural in (contemporary) Christian music again!"
DeleteI reply, Lots of scriptural contemporary Christian music here:
http://godlychristianmusic.com/Music_Artist_Details.aspx?id=205
For those that don't surf there daily, I suggest checking out the latest post on the last article at Unsealed, "Massive Earthquake Strikes Iraq As Star Of Bethlehem Rises Over Israel". Interesting insight/revelation? from personal prayer time of a Watcher, Teddy Kim, worthy of getting on your radars. Maranatha!
ReplyDeleteZeus Mossbender's newest video is a home run, and speaks to what we've been discussing here:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMux0hElAz4
(please forgive my ignorance on how to format the link)
mksmith, yes, the 'echo' of that theme coming from the Spirit and again being hummed by one of our favorite minstrels, Little Shaul, was noteworthy. Many Watchers, on many pages, over these past months, have also worked to remind us all to be about the restraining part assigned to us in these times as we await the Crux of the Biscuit coming down the proverbial pipe. Maranatha!
DeleteMiguel and Nora - I appreciate all the comments you have made regarding DJ's frustration toward Annabelle and his demeaning of women.
ReplyDeleteI think both of you offered suggestions toward DJ that are biblically sound.
I believe Miguel you defended Annabelle and womanhood in general.
You were a brother in Christ.
I think Annabelle's comments regarding empathy muddied the waters.
You both in my view have tried to take a stand for biblical truth - versus all these words to do with telling the truth in love and using this as a defense for a person's appalling words and justifying them using scripture.
Cathi
Thank you Cathi. I appreciate your response. I am glad that you are able to see my point.
DeleteJoining Miguel, blessings sister! :--)
DeleteRe the ins and outs of love Biblically is a tricky topic that you all tackled and all of you did it so amazingly well Scripturally and spiritually. Thank you for more good food for thought.
DeleteAll I know is the life experience of how tough it can be to teach a child to be selfless and gentle and kind. Lots of prayer required. And it's much harder with adults set in their ways. In fact, the only One I've ever seen able to instill that true "die to yourself" agape love in any heart is Yeshua, Himself, and with most people, that is a sanctifying process. I have met a few that just seemed to be born blessed with it. (Very few and I certainly wasn't one of them except maybe when it came to animals:-)
But won't it be phenomenal when we are all changed and it will just naturally be a part
of who we are for all of eternity! Can't be soon enough for me. Many Blessings All!
"Can't be soon enough for me." Same here, Sis! It can't be soon enough!
DeleteHey there again, after having discussed many other topics I think we're constantly getting closer to Revelation 12:5 in the meantime:Nibiru skies matching in Denmark and New Jersey 11/15/17" have a look!! (please note this YTC is non-Christian and cannot explain the phenomenon but it's just for the footage) Also, Sky Watcher Matt Rogers did a pretty good compilation how our skies have subtly changed over the past decades that's exactly what my experience is when I go outside. I just couldn't explain it yet. MARANATHA!
ReplyDeleteAnnabel, Sis, isn't the crescendo of convergence exciting? NYT now confirms about an 'impending deal' ala Trump concerning the Philistines v Israel (see latest at Unsealed) while astronomical party crashers seem to be louder in the foyer than ever, as you remind us again, NK staying hot, Putin's going to the Moon now, a newly discovered Leonardo painting of Christ captures the largest recorded payment for an artwork in Modern History (coincidence? yeah, riiiiight), AU decides to join the walk on the wild (dark) side, Adoptive parents denied access to adoptees as their Christian beliefs make them unfit as parents, oy vey!
DeleteI am reminded of a teaching by Alan Horvath concerning the original Otiot pictograph language later translated as 'wait(ing) upon the lord' (Isa 40:31) { see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3iCgynyKME} where he shows us that the 1st of the three symbols, Quph, is a circle with a line bisecting horizontally, represents the horizon. Foundational to this concept is that His coming/acting is as Sure as the daily sunrise: unstoppable, on His schedule (no other), the event around which everything else is 'timed'. Thus, waiting upon the Lord is founded upon the idea of the inevitability, dependability, and absolute Divinity of the One upon Whom we await. The crescendo at hand on all fronts, the astronomical one seeming to be like the second hand on the timer, is trumpeting a very loud and commanding tone, no? Maranatha!
Annabel, my iPhone is full of strange sky pics like that I've taken over the past year. I didn't know much about PX or had never been on a YTC til I decided to find out if anyone else out there was seeing what I was noticing in the skies.
DeleteIt has been an education for sure as it's made a great deal more sense of some prophetical issues for me. Blessings!
Did anyone see the GHASTLY reports on the drag queen parade held recently in Austin, TX? The fact that the Travis County Jail is not full of these beasts for the involvement of children in their sickening behavior is beyond belief! How long? Can't be much.
Delete95% of network news is nothing but stories of immorality, in a concerted effort I believe, to numb the senses to it. Even so, Lord, come QUICKLY!
At this stage of research I'd like to come back to Scott Clarkes last video on SATURN (watch it again!) and compare it to this article about Saturn in constellation Ophiuchus Nov2017 that I found. I'm not sure if this is a Christian author as he doesn't seem to take 9/23 for real but it's nevertheless interesting from the perspective of Rev12 plot. Come LORD Jesus, hurry!
DeleteI just read the latest article at Unsealed and the most striking words to me were "The West is lost and our only hope is in Christ."
DeleteAnd this as I am watching Tucker talk about a white man who has decided he is now a Filipino woman to be henceforth known
as a Ja Du. And listening to a spokesman of all that is good and tolerant give an insane defense of a person's sanity and perfect right to be accepted as transracial as well as transgender. I feel like I am on Planet Tatooine inside the palace of Jabba the Hutt with the Death Star out there powering up. I am not even sure how
to pray for anything other than as many as will to come to Yeshua NOW!
I want us all off this planet.
Please come, Lord!
Maranatha!
Sheila, Jimboni - yes I do observe all this too. I have pondered how long this must aggravate until God intervenes. I have come to the conclusion that there is in fact NO culmination point visible to that as it all will just go on and on like in the last 'Mad Max' movie (where there's no story at all behind but just total destruction to watch). :=D The only thing that is indeed left to watch for us here are the skies and the heavenlies. It gets harder to get off bed every morning to find us still here... Feeling with you all, let's pray for one anothers endurance and good mood! I recently saw some WSO video about "Walmart selling Dark Stars now" (Nov12) the enemy KNOWS his time's up! MARANATHA
DeleteAmen to that, Annabel. Strong faith and good courage for all of the Body of Christ!
DeleteSheila, can you send me an email? Thanks!
DeleteYes, Sir, but I'm not sure where to send that.
DeleteI think I did find that. I'm such a dinosaur at this web stuff.
DeleteBe blessed!
Consider Mark 12:31. In this verse we are COMMANDED to love another. Since it is unreasonable to demand that a person have certain feelings about another, I conclude, with Don Francisco, that "Love is not a feeling" but must be "an act of the will," and therefore the proper object of a command.
ReplyDeleteDon and I are not alone in this conclusion. See, for example, here:
https://www.compellingtruth.org/agape-love.html
Note the opening sentence in the second paragraph:
"Agape love is a little different [from phileo, (brotherly love), and eros (erotic love) and storge (love between family members)]. It is not a feeling; it's a motivation for action that we are free to choose or reject."
C. S. Lewis' "The Four Loves" is also highly recommended in this regard.
I don't think any of us said , love is a "feeling". Nor did I recommend you have feelings for Annabel. So, you are grasping at straws.
DeleteDJ, I know it's a weird question, but were you in the military?
DeleteMiguel P asks, "I know it's a weird question, but were you in the military?"
DeleteI reply, Nope. I was eligible back in the Vietnam War era, but my number came up 354 out of 365 in the "birthday draft lottery" so I wasn't called to serve.
Write me directly (gerry.rzeppa@pobox.com) and I'll send you a brief but comprehensive illustrated biography that will show you exactly how God has made me the man I am today.
DJ,
DeleteA few other Bible verses for consideration.
"Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience."
(Colossians 3:12)
“All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because,
“God opposes the proud
but shows favor to the humble.”
(1Peter55)
“Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves...”
(Philippians 2:3)
“He must increase, but I must decrease.”
(John 3:30)
I was reading Dorothy Sayers book "The Mind of the Maker" this morning and came across a striking quote about love from C. S. Lewis that she put at the head of Chapter IX. I'll repeat it here for our mutual edification:
Delete"You asked for a loving God: you have one. The great spirit you so lightly invoked, the "lord of terrible aspect," is present: not a senile benevolence that drowsily wishes you to the happy in your own way, not the cold philanthropy of a conscientious magistrate, nor the care of a host who feels responsible for the comfort of his guests, but the consuming fire Himself, the Love that made the worlds, persistent as the artist's love for his work and despotic as a man's love for a dog, provident and venerable as a father's love for a child, jealous, inexorable, exacting as love between the sexes."
English isn’t my first language, so I checked the words, *inexorable* and *exacting*. I’ve found synonyms like: severe, austere, stern, sharp, rigorous, irreconcilable and harsh. I’ve described in detail my personal experience with the Lord and His amazing love (in another thread where we’ve also had a discussion). His love is nothing like the adjectives above. The only synonym that’s got a positive meaning to me is *unrelenting*. Despite His immense power and strength the Lord is not severe toward us, His children. Plus, He’s interested in our spiritual, emotional and physical well-being. The Bible calls the Lord a jealous God but I wouldn’t describe His love as *despotic*. The Lord’s love is not like “human love” which is affected by the flesh. The thing is, oftentimes my discerning senses are ringing a warning when I’m reading descriptions of the Lord and His character by man, that’s why I prefer the Bible firstly, especially when it comes to His love and His relationship with us. I’m sorry DJ, I truly do not say these things for the sake of argument (which I don’t like at all!) but that’s how I see this topic.
DeleteDear Nora:
DeleteDorothy took the quote from Lewis' "The Problem of Pain" book. His point was that God will not hesitate to do whatever it takes to see His beloved perfected. Even going so far (for a real life example) as making our friend Joni Eareckson Tada a quadriplegic for life (see http://www.joniandfriends.org/about-us/history/). Or taking a son, by premature death, from from a doting mother (for the good of both), as Lewis describes in Chapter 11 of his book "The Great Divorce." Or asking Abraham to sacrifice his beloved son Isaac.
I'm not here to argue, either. I'm simply the weight that God has placed on the other side of scale to help keep things balanced. If my views seem unduly heavy, consider the cumulative weight that is already on the other side of the scale here. In short, my remarks here do not represent the moderation and balance that I practice at home; rather, my remarks here are calculated to balance a situation that appears (to me) to be strongly weighted toward a dangerous and slippery slope. If you end up imagining me to be someone other than who I am, and end up disliking that imaginary soul for his extreme views, well, I guess that's the price we seers pay for simply saying what we see.
„His point was that God will not hesitate to do whatever it takes to see His beloved perfected. Even going so far (for a real life example) as making our friend Joni Eareckson Tada a quadriplegic for life.”
DeleteThe notion that the Lord causes us all kind of diseases, takes away loved ones (in death) and deliberately brings devastating and painful situations and all sorts of other tragedies into our lives is very wide-spread in the Church and I believe so that this notion is not only an unscriptural and totally false concept cooked up by His enemy but also a very severe attack on the character of the Lord! It’s a tragedy that so many people believe it! DJ, none of the things I’m saying here meant to offend you, I do not want to offend any brethren but I need to defend what I’ve so far learned about the Lord, both through the Scriptures and life experience. When people believe so that the Lord perfects us through suffering, they don’t fully understand what His grace really means, how He relates to us and sees us and what His redemptive work accomplished. I’m not saying that none of those people believe before mentioned subjects but many of them don’t fully understand those subjects. The trial of faith is another matter.
Before you’d mention Job… this guy nailed this entire topic pretty good in his short study series on Job, I link them below. I’m not forcing this on anyone; whoever is interested could check them and read them.
https://escapetoreality.org/2010/08/02/does-god-give-and-take-away/
https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/22/little-known-facts-about-job/
https://escapetoreality.org/2015/11/04/jobs-grace-encounter/
https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/30/gospel-of-elihu/
https://escapetoreality.org/2016/09/30/patience-of-job-james-5v11/
Nora, I agree with you. I have more to say (of course), but I'm driving so it'll have to wait. Peace.
DeleteNora says, "The notion that the Lord causes us all kind of diseases, takes away loved ones (in death) and deliberately brings devastating and painful situations and all sorts of other tragedies into our lives is very wide-spread in the Church and I believe so that this notion is not only an unscriptural and totally false concept cooked up by His enemy but also a very severe attack on the character of the Lord! It’s a tragedy that so many people believe it!"
DeleteI reply, Unscriptural? Isaiah 45:7; Isaiah 26:16; Job 5:17; Proverbs 3:11; Hebrews 12:5, 7, 11; 1 Corinthians 11:29-30; See also Isaiah 53:10. Your theology in this area is both lopsided and shallow, Nora. And wouldn't stand up for five minutes in a discussion with an intelligent atheist.
Nora, the fact that you have a deep, abiding and very personal relationship with Yeshua Ha Mashiach is so obvious in all your thoughts, Sister.
DeleteAnd the fact that you trust in the Holy Spirit's guidance is quite evident as well.
The love of Elohim shines in you and so many others here. What spirit is it that would see any advantage in trying to beat that back? Not one you can encourage with the Spirit you walk in. Much love to you Sister! Maranatha!
Sheila B asks, "An intelligent atheist? Ps.14:1, Ps53:1."
DeleteI reply, My bad. It's an idiomatic expression. I forget about the language barrier here sometimes. I should have said, "quick witted" or "clever" instead of "intelligent". The world is full of such. I was thinking of 1 Peter 3:15 when I wrote that. Allow me to reword. My meaning was, "Your shallow and lopsided arguments, Nora, wouldn't even stand up to the scrutiny of a foolish (but clever) atheist. Surely you don't expect Spirit-dwelt believers to believe that tripe!"
Here's something curious. Nora recommends these five articles...
https://escapetoreality.org/2010/08/02/does-god-give-and-take-away/
https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/22/little-known-facts-about-job/
https://escapetoreality.org/2015/11/04/jobs-grace-encounter/
https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/30/gospel-of-elihu/
https://escapetoreality.org/2016/09/30/patience-of-job-james-5v11/
...all written by a man who apparently holds a "preterist" view of Scripture; ie, he apparently believes the Great Tribulation occurred in 70 AD. (I say "apparently" because his online articles come very close to admitting that, but then he says I need to buy his book for $6.99 or more to hear the rest.) If he can be that far off on his interpretation of Revelation, why should we take him seriously on other topics?
Dear DJ,
DeleteThat gentleman is a *preterits*, no offense but it's not the end of the world! Of course I don't agree with him on his preterits views. On the other hand I agree with him on his study series on Job. And he is not the only one, the late Jack Kelley; one of my favorite Bible teachers had the same conclusion about Job in his study series on the Book of Job. I chose to link Paul Ellis' studies because his studies are even more detailed and sheds light on important matters like this one:
https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/28/is-satan-gods-sheepdog/
Speaking of Jack Kelley, (who is holding the view of the pre-trib rapture and a dispensationalist btw):
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/how-do-i-know-when-god-is-testing-me/
DJ, none of the Bible verses you linked supports your view. Again, no offense, I’m sorry to say that but you look at those verses through your own distorted lenses. The Lord's discipline first and foremost is teaching, the word *disciple* comes from the same root. It is teaching, training but definitely not striking people with sickness and calamities! I'm firmly standing by all what I've previously said.
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DeleteOne more thing. We live in the era of the New Covenant. The Lord has already shed His blood on the cross for the redemption of all our sins. He gave us the right to become His children and all of these things have great significance and affect our relationship with Him.
DeleteThe whole chapter of Isaiah 53 is about the Lord Jesus and His redemption of mankind.
DeleteNora says, "...you look at those verses through your own distorted lenses. The Lord's discipline first and foremost is teaching, the word *disciple* comes from the same root. It is teaching, training but definitely not striking people with sickness and calamities!
DeleteI reply: I look at those verses, not through "distorted lenses," but through the crystal-clear lenses of first-hand experiences as a father. I spend most of my time, as you suggest, teaching my son; but when necessary, I discipline him by literally striking and sometimes even bruising him, Proverbs 13:24; Proverbs 20:30. If God not only allows, but commands that we "miniature" fathers on earth practice this kind of discipline, why shouldn't we think that our great Father in Heaven doesn't practice the same kind of discipline with His children?
Look again at Hebrews 12:6, in Young's LITERAL translation: "...for whom the Lord doth love He doth chasten, and He scourgeth every son whom He receiveth." Note the word "scourgeth" in the second half of that verse. This is what Strong's concordance has to say about the original Greek behind that word:
3146 mastigóō – properly, to whip (scourge) with a mastigos (see 3148 /mástiks, a "whip"); to "flog (scourge) a victim, strapped to a pole or frame" (Souter); (figuratively) God sending severe pain in the best eternal interests of the believer (see Heb 12:6)
It seems to me you're willing to accept the half of that verse that appeals to you, but you insist on twisting the latter half to fit your own second-hand notions of fatherhood. Lopsided and shallow, Nora, as I said before. But understandable, I suppose. After all, you're not (and never will be) anybody's father, 1 Corinthians 11:7.
DJ,
DeleteI respectfully but wholeheartedly disagree. I’d be cautious not to project some of "our human ways” to the Lord. Let’s peacefully agree that we disagree on these things and continue to seek the Lord on all matters, including these topics.
I offer the following writings for prayerful consideration to those who are interested. I mean *prayerful consideration* as prayerfully and adamantly seeking the Lord on these matters, waiting on the lead of His Holy Spirit, not accepting anything on face-value of course!
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/understanding-hebrews-125-6/
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/the-lords-discipline/
https://escapetoreality.org/2013/06/11/hebrews-12v6-does-god-scourge/
https://escapetoreality.org/2011/04/12/1-corinthians-1126-32/
Some last additions, as I remembered a famous English proverb.
Deletehttps://gracethrufaith.com/topical-studies/tough-questions-answered/spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child/
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/spare-the-rod-again/
Nora says, "I’d be cautious not to project some of 'our human ways' to the Lord."
DeleteI reply, SOME of our ways, of course. But keep in mind that God says His ways are higher than ours (Isaiah 55:9), not utterly different. And since God is unknowable in His essence (Exodus 33:20), getting to know Him via the analogies used in the Bible, is quite reasonable, and often the only way to go. It's not a "leap" to compare the way human fathers are supposed to discipline their children (Proverbs 22:6; Proverbs 13:24; Proverbs 20:30) to the way God disciplines His children; it's the very analogy given to us by the Holy Spirit in the book of Hebrews (12:6, etc).
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DeleteDJ,
DeleteI do not agree with how you see certain things, please accept that! I'd refrain from further debating this topic! As for Proverbs 13:24, your way of interpretation was pretty much disproved by some of the studies I linked above. Your way of thinking isn't representing the Lord's ways to me! And frankly, " I spend most of my time, as you suggest, teaching my son; but when necessary, I discipline him by literally striking and sometimes even bruising him..." I find this horrible, I wouldn't boast about that! This is more concerning to me than a guy's view who believes that some of the events in Revelations have already happened.
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DeleteNora says, "I do not agree with how you see certain things... As for Proverbs 13:24, your way of interpretation... I find this horrible. I wouldn't boast about that!
DeleteI reply: No shame here. Let's apply the test that Jesus recommended, Matthew 7:17-18. Write me directly (gerry.rzeppa@pobox.com) and I'll send you a brief illustrated biography of our "miracle baby" (now 12 years old) so you'll have the facts you need to rightly judge (Proverbs 18:13) whether the fruits of our Biblical parenting are good or bad. And while you're waiting for my email reply, you can prepare by reading Dr. James Dobson's answer to a woman who had the same kind of reservations you have regarding the Biblical discipline of children:
http://drjamesdobson.org/blogs/dr-dobson-blog/dr-dobson-blog/2014/06/09/is-spanking-healthy-discipline-
DJ,
DeleteThank you for offering your email address but I stand by what I've previously said. As I mentioned, I refrain from further debating these subjects with you, I kindly ask you to accept that. I rest in the fact that when we’ll meet the Lord all our misconceptions will be corrected (which haven’t been already done so by His Holy Spirit during our earthly time). I think that the best thing all of us can do is to continue seeking the Lord in prayer about everything and wait on the leading of His Holy Spirit.
DJ,
DeleteI shared the paragraph below in a post last month and want to put it here as a fresh reminder. It seems to me that these debates you are engaged recently are more like a one sided boxing match than a conversation among loving brothers and sisters in Christ. It pains me when I feel a spirit of division in the words here with very little grace. I had to ban one prior person because the frequency and tone of comments became so disruptive to the overall conversation and the lack of grace was contrary to my purpose for creating this site as the Lord willed. The lack of grace in many your comments and willingness to poke and prod at others to get responses troubles me in a similar way. So I will post what a shared on Oct 10th for your review and pray that is enough to turn this around.... God Bless You.
From Oct 10th:
"The energy and exchange of ideas is contagious... but please remember that this site is set apart for God... so please try your best to phrase things in a way that are unmistakably marked with Fruits of the Spirit. Our words have power... so yield that sword with caution and give your siblings grace and treat them with gentleness and encouragement. With that in mind please know a certain someone has been restricted with the help of Gary at Unsealed. The amount of disruptive comments should now be drastically reduced moving forward.... Thanks Gary. Sadly this also means I had to remove the "Anonymous" option for commenting.... one bad apple ruined that convenience for everybody. Perhaps that was his intention, if so do not let him win and continue to make the effort to comment anyway. So sorry for the inconvenience."
Nora says, "Thank you for offering your email address but I stand by what I've previously said."
DeleteI reply, And apparently you don't want to be confused by FACTS that don't fit your preconceived notions of who God is and how He works.
Nora continues, "As I mentioned, I refrain from further debating these subjects with you, I kindly ask you to accept that."
I reply, Okay, I accept that. This is my last post to you on these subjects.
I'm a "watcher" of a different sort, Nora, Ezekiel 3:21, Hebrews 13:17. It's my duty to warn others who are in danger. You, my dear, have a dangerous habit of rewriting the Word of God to suit your own notions, rather than allowing the Word of God to renew your mind. Three recent examples: (1) The Word clearly says one should discipline his children with a literal rod, Proverbs 13:24, but you say, "that's horrible." (2) The Word clearly says that God scourges every child He receives, Hebrews 12:6 (in theKJV and the original Greek), but you say, "That's not at all how God works." (3) The Word clearly says that God intended for men and women to be different and to play different roles in their lives here on earth, Ephesians 5:23, 1 Corinthians 11:7, but you throw those God-given distinctions to the wind and insist that men and women are equal in every imaginable way.
Nora continues, "I rest in the fact that when we’ll meet the Lord all our misconceptions will be corrected (which haven’t been already done so by His Holy Spirit during our earthly time)."
I reply, Have you considered that perhaps the Holy Spirit has graciously sent ME to help you correct your misconceptions "during our earthly time"? God forbid that you find yourself, when the time comes, among those to whom Jesus says, "I never knew you," Matthew 7:23. Consider yourself warned: the Jesus you've made up for yourself is not the One who is soon to return for His own.
Nora concludes, "I think that the best thing all of us can do is to continue seeking the Lord in prayer about everything and wait on the leading of His Holy Spirit."
I reply, So do that. "Continue seeking" -- by writing me directly (gerry.rzeppa@pobox.com) for the facts and information the Holy Spirit wants you to have, and that you so sorely need. As Brad has pointed out above, this is not the place for this discussion; best we take it offline. Final offer Hebrews 3:7-8.
Once upon a time a woman was stuck on the roof of her house in a flood. A guy came by in a well-worn boat, but she refused to get in, saying "The Lord will save me." Later a guy in a rusty helicopter came by and dropped a rope, but she again refused, saying, "The Lord will save me." In the end, she drowned, and found herself face-to-face with God. "Why didn't you save me?" she asked. And He replied, "Be gone. I sent you a boat and a helicopter. You never knew Me or my ways."
To BRAD: Thank you for your wisdom and patience to date. These are perilous times, 2 Timothy 3:1, and since our time is short, it's no time to mince words with those who are being led astray. I have a duty to say what I see, Ezekiel 3:21. Ban me if you must; it won't be the first time, Jeremiah 7:27. I try to take these peripheral issues offline by supplying my email address (gerry.rzeppa@pobox.com) but alas, the others insist on replying here, Romans 10:21.
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DeleteHey guys, I just had a random thought... referring to the 1500+ reports (mentioned above) of meteorites being "thrown to the earth"......
ReplyDelete..... do you see a parallel to Rev 12:4 ? I'm not saying it's a literal fulfillment... I just think it's noteworthy that we're just coming out of the Rev 12 sign, and this meteorite shower is coming close on its heels. If you watch some of the videos, they look just like "stars being cast to the earth".
Thought provoking, if nothing else.
Here's a video from MrMBB333 highlighting some of this info:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de12EvbaUf0
The only connection with Revelation 12:4 that I see is the graphic image of "stars being cast to the earth." But I don't see how we can attach any prophetic significance to this event because a similar thing happened several times before, and is predicted to happen several more times in the not-to-distant future. See...
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonids
...for more information and interesting pictures of the thing.
mksmith dear friend you're certainly up to sth here, that's what I try to tell all along! :) Yes, the so called 'Leonid showers' are indeed some regular phenomenon that occurs every year - but what makes them completely IRREGILAR now in 2017 is their CLOSENESS to earth and entry into lower regions of the atmosphere (loud sonic 'boom' in Alabama) I doubt not there will be some of them impacting soon and not only in Siberia or other places where population is scarce... But to come to full literal fulfillment of meteor / asteroid impact we also have to consider chapter 6 chronology of Revelation when these events will sort of 'end' the cataclysms happening. The cosmic debris of the "red dragon" takes some time to be flung to earth from quite a distance. But again you're certainly right about it being part of the judgement in tribulation period. Why else would half of the US be tunneled with bunkers and DUMBs since decades already?? Of course NASA and all the government knew long ago this would happen but they wouldn't tell the public to avoid panic! Why else is it written in the bible = Revelation 5:15-17 ? Blessings be to you MARANATHA!
DeleteExcuse me the verse has to be Revelation 6:15-17 (typing error above) of course... ;)
DeleteAn observation:
DeleteNora, up above, is lecturing me about the love of God via articles written by Dr. Paul Ellis, an apparent preterist (see https://www.amazon.com/dp/1927230411/), and Annabel is seeing prophetic significance in the recurring Leonid meteor showers that Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, cleverly used to his own "prophetic" advantage back in 1833 (see http://www.moroni10.com/mormon_history/joseph-smith-stars-falling.html).
Strikes me like we're attracting some strange bedfellows. The one (Ellis) tells me the Tribulation is already past, while the other (Smith) says, "the saints will remain on the earth through the tribulation period until Christ's coming and those who are old or in the grave shall be changed to a resurrected state at that time. Younger saints will grow old and be changed in an instant at one hundred years of age to inherit a glorious resurrection with God and Christ."
Speaking of the strange bedfellows we seem to be attracting, I was just notified of this post on a different thread on this site:
Delete"Nat Asha has left a new comment on the post "A Fitting Finale? The Venus/Jupiter Conjunction C...":
I’m from United States, My husband divorced me 3 years ago for no reason, i did all i could to get him but didn't work, until i met Dr.Agbazara of AGBAZARA TEMPLE on the internet who helped me to cast a re-union spell and within 24 hours my husband came back to me apologizing. Thanks to Dr.agbazara. Contact this great spell caster on your relationship or marriage problems"
So we've got folks recommending Preterists, Mormons, and now Spell Casters! God help us!
Annabel,
DeleteI hope I didn't misrepresent myself. I certainly DON'T believe we're in the Trib period.
I just simply wanted to point out that the timing of the meteors literally crashing to earth is interesting.
We had the Sept. 23rd sign literally fulfilled (Rev. 12:1-2), now we have this meteor shower that resembles Rev. 12:4 ..... Rev. 12:5 is the next verse, and it is the Rapture.
I'm NOT saying the meteor shower is fulfilling Rev. 12:4. I'm just pointing out that the timing is interesting, and it's one of those things I tuck into the back of my brain and say, "hhhmmmmm........"
I do believe the Rapture is VERY close. But because Jesus said He is coming back when we think NOT, I'm currently under the impression that no matter how many signs we see, or how many calculations we make, we're simply not going to be able to predict a date for it.
Jesus' only command was to WATCH. He didn't tell us to PREDICT.
So, I choose to obey Him. I'm WATCHING.
There are so many SIGNS happening all around us. The stuff happening in the sky is just one little piece of the puzzle. What really has my attention right now are all the events happening in the middle east. I think those "signs" are much more interesting to watch & easier to understand than the celestial signs.
The other thing I find interesting is the 3rd Temple. Bob Cornuke & others have introduced some archaeological & scriptural evidence that the temple mount was never the location of the Temple. They're of the belief that that 35 acre piece of land is the location where the Roman fort was located, and that it matches previous Roman forts which were also about 35 acres.
Their evidence places the Temple location in the City of David, which is just below the Temple Mount area. I'm currently reading a book by Ernest L. Martin, "The Temples That Jerusalem Forgot". Fascinating, but long -- 485 pages.
If indeed they're on to something, that means they could literally build the Temple at any time. But, only when God is ready for them to build it. Currently, there's a lot of resistance to the idea because of tradition. But when you learn of the origins of the idea that the Temple Mount is "the" correct spot, it becomes even more clear that it's not.
And, if the City of David IS the correct spot, then Jesus words that "not one stone would be left atop another" were absolutely fulfilled... the City of David was decimated. The archaeological dig that has been going on there for some time has revealed some very interesting evidence that indeed indicate signs of a previous temple.
Sorry to have gone on so long here lol. The Temple location is the current puzzle piece I'm fiddling with, and it's so fascinating to me.
If any of you are interested, look for Bob Cornuke or Chuck Missler talks on the Temple on You Tube.
We're SO close! Maranatha!
Yet another "sign of the times": I was thinking about the "strange bedfellows" (see above) that are creeping in to the "watcher' community, ridiculous date calculations based on license plates and model numbers of semi-automatic weapons, together with the general resistance to sound and balanced doctrine that I've personally experienced, and the God-breathed words that came to my mind were these: 2 Timothy 4:3.
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DeleteDJ,
DeleteAre you directing 2 Timothy 4:3 to me? Because I'm reading a book about the Temple??
mksmith asks, "Are you directing 2 Timothy 4:3 to me? Because I'm reading a book about the Temple??"
DeleteI reply, Nothing I've said has been directed at you, unless it was a specific answer to one of your posts where I quote you, reply, etc, as in this mesage. I was going to reply to your longer recent post, but I see now that you've deleted it (I read it in the notification that gets sent via email). Why did you delete it? I thought it was very encouraging. If you'd rather talk privately, my email address is gerry.rzeppa@pobox.com.
Regarding the Temple: A little while back my son and I built a model of the tabernacle from a kit. This is the kit (and the painting guide) we used:
Deletehttps://www.goodseed.com/tabernacle-model-painting-guide.html
Ours looked almost exactly like those pictures when it was done (except our cows were holsteins and herefords).
I'm wondering: Do the Jews really need a rebuilt Temple to restart their sacrifices? Wouldn't a rebuilt Tabernacle suffice?
mksmith dear friend I didn't misinterpret you but just wanted to point out that you might be watching in the right direction when observing "Israel birth pangs getting stronger" (Rev12:2) and "heavenly signs around red dragon increasing" (Rev12:3-4). I'm not even sure the "rebuilt" 3rd Temple has anything to do with this as it is only based on the mentioning in a single verse in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and nowhere else. It even doesn't say there's anything "rebuilt" but just that the AC will declare himself God at this location OR among believers (G3485 naos = look up Thayer / Strongs definition can have different meaning!). Check out "Holy Temple Myth Busters" on YouTube (from Jerusalem Temple Institute) they say it even doesn't need a whole temple being installed but just the altar is sufficient to fulfill the law. So I'm not sure about these temple stories at all. Look onto the signs that the LORD has given us (birth pangs, heavenlies) he didn't say a word on the temple being an endtimes sign like earthquakes, wars and pestilences. What you mean with Luke 21:6 refers to 70 AD indeed as already fulfilled in those days. Much blessings to you!
DeletePs 27:14 (KJV)
ReplyDeleteProverbs 8:34-35 (KJV)
Isaiah 40:31 (KJV)
Song 2:14 (KJV)
Wonderful reminder, dear sister! Thank you, stay blessed! Much love XOXO
DeleteJust read this in the amplified Bible-
ReplyDeleteDaniel 12:4-But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the scroll until the end of time. Many will go back and forth and search anxiously [through the scroll], and knowledge [of the purpose of God as revealed by His prophets] will [greatly] increase.”
'Anxiously through the scrolls' sounds like so many of us since September 24!
Yes, I agree. I have KJV, and here is written "run to and fro", and also in Jer 5:1 "Run ye to and fro … and see now, and know, and seek…". Then it is searching for knowlege "to the time of the end", sense is still the same as you showed. And here is also parallel to Zech 4:10, then this knowledge ought to be right in the Lord's eyes, not the human's knowledge. This is approved also in Am 8:12! Thank you, I have much learned today! Much lessings!
DeletePossibly an unfortunate interpretation of Daniel 12:4 Isaiah41. from NASB - “But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase.” Plenty of discussion on what 'knowledge' this refers to. Biblical, global (as we see with the advent of the Internet), or knowledge of the spiritual. Interesting to ponder.
DeleteI think still that Isaiah41 is right. Look, here is written exactly "seal the book, even to the time of the end", then it is to the time when prophesies begin to fulfill, and "many", that is us, must run, because the knowledge is very much to get, and the time is very short, indeed. This is surely the Lord's knowledge, because it's about the sealed book! And Amos 8:12 says also "run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD", and though "they… shall not find it", we find it, because the Lord is here, in us. And it's interesting also Hab 2:2: "that he may run that readeth it". This is really "interesting to ponder", Through and Through.
DeleteWhat about Daniel 12: 1-2? How do you interpret it? It makes me think Michael is the restrainer and that resurrection/rapture happens during a time of great distress. Maybe during the great tribulation...just before God releases his wrath. Interesting!
DeleteI prefer double check with the original Hebrew that only puts 2 words here in Daniel 12:4 that are "many" (rab H7227 in the sense of a "multitude") and "to and fro" (shut H7751) which I find in Strongs Concordance better translated as "to ROW, to ROVER ABOUT" in a sense of traveling over water and rowing along into it and by doing so traveling FORTH towards the final destination. You see what the deeper meaning of it is? But there's no word stating anxiety at all. True believers aren't (to be) anxious anyway Romans 8:15 / 2 Timothy 1:7
DeleteTracy Dear, you're certainly right about Daniel 12:1-2 which is directly mirrored in Revelation 12:7 but not Michael is the restrainer but the church is, these are two simultaneous events described (Church raptured = Satan cast down). Much blessings to you! :)
DeleteI ponder now on Daniel 12:1-4, and here is my logical plan.
DeleteVerse 1-3: Michael stands up – time of trouble – deliverance – resurrection of the dead – everlasting glorious life or contempt
Verse 4: Daniel should shut up and seal the book of prophesy until the time of the end, when it should be understood, because this prophesy begins to fulfil.
Now about Michael. Here – stands up, then 1Thes 4:16 – voice of the archangel, when we are caught up, then Rev 12:7 – war in heaven. So first Rapture, then Michael, then Tribulation, then the woman flies into the wilderness…
I would say, this passage is parallel to Luke 21 – unto verse 24 goes description of Tribulation, then 25-28 command to us – when we see signs, fear… then Luke 21:28 “when these things begin to come to pass, then…”
The words „run to and fro” I would link to the knowledge, because here is this directly so written: “many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased”.
I think Daniel should hide prophesy from profane people, because they would only mock it. Jesus explained this to His disciples: Mat 13:10-11.
I think then that begins to be clear to us, as we see the end time approaching.
Perhaps I am mistaken in the interpretation. But so far it seems so to me.
Blessings to all! Maranatha!
Alla D says, "So first Rapture, then Michael, then Tribulation, then the woman flies into the wilderness…"
DeleteI reply, That's how I read it.
Hi Alla - Sorry, my initial 'unfortunate interpretation' comment was regarding the additional insertion by the Amplified Bible into Daniel 12:4. I like the AMP, however was interested to see the insertion that is not present in the original Hebrew. I agree with Annabel as well that we are not called to anxiety.
DeleteHowever I was interested to see your comparison of Amos 8:12 to Daniel 12:4. The fascinating thing about the two verses, is that they note opposite perspectives on 'knowledge'. Daniel notes that knowledge will increase, whereas Amos indicates an absence of it (so does it refer to knowledge of the Lord, one prior to the rapture, one post it).
Interesting contrast, which is why I tend to think of Daniels comments on 'running to and fro, and knowledge will increase', as being in line with what Chuck Missler has noted on the subject, that in the final days (i.e the last 70 or so years), air/vehicle travel has allowed the availability of travel to increase dramatically, and in the last 15 years, the internet has expanded the ability of people to obtain knowledge on almost anything. Anyway, that is perhaps a bit too simplistic in perspective, but is one I hold to at the current time. I need to look at your Amos and Habakuk references more as they are really interesting however.
Ryan
Hi Ryan, I agree with your consideration. I would say only, that I can't appreciate the difference between English translations, this isn't my native language. Russian Synodal translation is very distorted. I use the KJV, because many consider it to be one of the best, I'm already used to. I wanted only to show my opinion about this issue and explain why I think so. Sorry. About Daniel 12:4 and Amos 8:12 I would say, there is need to consider the time and purpose, and to whom is it purposed. I'm about the words "run to and fro", I searched this phrase. Then Daniel should hide the prophesy until they begin to fulfil, and "many" with Holy Spirit would rightly understand it, that is us (probably). In Amos is about "famine in the land… of hearing the words of the LORD" (Am 8:11). I think these are the Jews under Tribulation, they run to and fro about the Promised Land and don't fine the rightly explanation, because they rejected Jesus Messiah, surely it's not about the written Word, but the truh teaches who tell them rightly when comes deliverance from this Trouble! It's supported with words of Jesus Himself, Joh 7:32-35. I suppose this. Much blessings!
DeleteDear family I have another challenge for you today, now please hang on and stay with this guy til the end of the video! I find it quite compelling just from the technical and radiation aspect (1969-2017). Satan is the father of all LIES... I'm curious about to hear from you (hey, but I'm NO flat-earther nevertheless you know) LOL :) much love and blessings!
ReplyDeleteAnnabel, this guy does a pretty good job of refuting that.
Deletehttps://youtu.be/_loUDS4c3Cs
And check out the comment from Timothy 53 on the video you sent. His comment is just a few comments down. It is from three weeks ago. He and some other comments make some great points that point to the fact that we probably did go to the moon.
My perspective on conspiracy, deception, NASA, government is this: we do get lied to a lot. There are people and there is lots of money involved, so that follows logically that we get lied to. Also, Satan has been carefully crafting deceptions for us for a long time, so it follows logically that there are some big lies and maybe bigger ones coming. I don't believe we have to know everything about the deceptions in order to win this race that we are in. In other words, I am fine with being right or wrong regarding my knowledge and opinions of the deceptions. I am fine not even having an opinion. Trying to know all the deceptions and conspiracies can consume and confuse you. I am highly trained in math and physics, but still get mislead by some of the information. My opinion is to be careful and test everything, which I think you are doing mostly.
These verses might apply.
Matthew 10:16
Hebrews 13:9 maybe?
Thank you Miguel, will check that out! Much appreciated indeed! Good to know you're here, MARANATHA! :)
DeleteSorry for posting this question here but it appears to be the most recent thread and I didn't know where else to put it. I believe we are supposed to know the season and day of the rapture. Since it is clearly stated that the stars are meant for knowing the seasons, it is reasonable to expect a heavenly sign such as the Revelation 12 sign. Also, since we can't be expected to know the day without knowing the season, it's reasonable to expect we would receive that knowledge first. The question is how do we determine the day. We're told we would be able to tell the day so as to not be caught unaware. I went to see the movie, 'Genesis (Paradise Lost)' and came away with a renewed sense for taking the Bible literally. That night, I woke up and immediately began thinking about the rapture discussions (as I often do lately) and the thought occurred to me that perhaps we should take the information we have been given a little more literally. Jesus told us that the end times would be: Matthew 24:37 (CJB) "For the Son of Man's coming will be just as it was in the days of Noach." Naturally, we interpret that to be a reference to the sinfulness of the times but, perhaps it means something more. Later in the day I reread the flood account and something I'd read and glossed over dozens of times suddenly seemed to leap off the page.
ReplyDeleteGenesis 7 (Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
11 On the seventeenth day of the second month of the 600th year of Noach’s life all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of the sky were opened. 12 It rained on the earth forty days and forty nights.
Think of all of the important events that occur in the Bible, the birth and/or death of the Messiah for example, and ask yourself what day does the Bible say they occurred. I couldn't think of any. However, this one event that is linked by Jesus to the end times gives us the exact day and month of its occurrence. Could it be that simple? Could the Rapture and the begining of the Tribulation be on the seventeenth day of the second month or May 2, 2018? We're told the day but, not the hour and it falls long enough after the sign in the heavens for the bridesmaids to have fallen asleep. Does it make sense numerically? I'll leave those kinds of questions to those who are more skilled in that area.
I've been thinking about a May rapture for a while, because my brother had a dream about it. And he's been right a lot with his dreams. Also, one of the oldest holidays is....ASCENSION Day. May 10 2018. It is the fortieth day of Easter, 8 days after your suggested date of May 2, and 10 days before pentecost...pretty significant. I'll stop there and hope some others with more understanding will add their input.
DeleteSomeone else can check me on this, but I believe the second month referred to is Cheshvan. At the time of the flood the first month would have been Tishri, but after the exodus, God changed the year to begin in Nisan. I wish I had references, maybe someone else will be able to find them.
DeleteGary Ramey, check out Daniel Matson's website: Signs of the End. It has more info about this.
"...but I believe the second month referred to is Cheshvan. At the time of the flood the first month would have been Tishri..." (as VS said) Yes, I've heard it so too, others who studied this said the same, the Flood allegedly happened in Cheshvan at the fall.
DeleteI think that there’s still a good chance for the rapture to happen this year. I'll consider next year when the first of January 2018 comes and Lord willing we'll be still there.
DeleteI stay with Nora until 12/31 :)) the US solar "X" eclipse frame 7 years between 2017-24 is still a pretty compelling sign to me. Why then would it start only next year? We still have 42 days to countdown...
Delete"...the US solar "X" eclipse frame 7 years between 2017-24 is still a pretty compelling sign to me." Indeed! :--)
DeleteI agree on that next Eclipse timing, Annabel. So many things with astronomical odds seem to frame the 2017-2024 period.
DeleteAnd John at Watchman for that Great Day did a video on this new Way of the Future church registering with IRS for status with a mission of promoting AI technology as a godhead for the betterment of society. That, to me, looks like the image of the beast in preparation mode. He also gives some interesting thoughts on Ps. 90:10 and Judah Ben Samuel's 10 Jubilees prophecy that has thus far been right on. Off topic, but noteworthy, Charles Manson has died at 83. No more parole hearings there.
Stay blessed and looking up! Maranatha!
Is this possibly where we go from here? Planet 7x, youtube, Gil Broussard. Interview from Global Newsmaker under videos on his site may be of interest. From this November, 2017.
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one thinking this? What if Sept. 23, 2017 was the Sign of the beginning of Tribulation. We are not appointed to wrath, not we are not appointed to tribulation. Three and a half years from the Sign would be very close to Passover March 27, 2021.
ReplyDeleteTribulation begins with the confirming of a "peace" covenant with Israel, read Dan. 9:27
DeleteHi all! I found today a new Amir's update, website Behold Israel, about peace process, Israel and Saudi cooperation, very good. I think we come home not only this year, but this very season, the signs are abundant! Thanks to you all for your watching! Blessings! Maranatha!
ReplyDeleteAnd about the Noah's calender I found the website Bible Timeline, author Jim Liles (https://www.thesacredcalendar.com/). I don't know how valid it is, but very interesting. He says the Creation Week began on Sunday October 21, 4101 BC at 6:00 PM on a Gregorian solar calendar, and events of Flood were in fall 2458 BC, after the death of Methuselah on Friday September 13 – Tishri 1, then Noah entered the Ark in 47 days after that, on Wednesday October 30 – Heshvan 10. I search this issue. Much Blessings!
ReplyDeleteOops. This is the last 8 of my 14 points about the rapture being on December 31, 2017. I will find the first points and then reply to this post if I can.
ReplyDelete7. THE PERFECT POINT - 12/31 - Count the digits its perfect. 7
12/31/2017 - Count the digits its the year. 17
High fives to Enoch when you see him. This is day 365 of the year!
8. A NEW REVELATION ABOUT LEVITICUS. So, this "new" revelation about a beginning Pentecost count and an ending Pentecost count was always in the Bible but not taught. The END OF PENTECOST COUNT, a mystery till the Church came up, and perhaps a mystery until we viewed those Scriptures in light of the Great Sign of September 23, 2017 and we see Daniel 12:4 is being fulfilled and new understandings are obtained as we go over and over the Book. The count for the BEGINNING OF PENTECOST is apparently different from the count to the END OF PENTECOST. We are to apply the count to the end of Pentecost FROM THE GREAT SIGN which is comparably as wondrous as the RESURRECTION...and it goes as set forth above.
9. SUPER BLOOD MOON, LAST OF TETRAD, SEPT. 28, 2015
So from the September 28, 2015 last Super Blood Moon as day 1 and then going to December 31, 2017,
I repeat...
THE LAST DAY OF DECEMBER
THE LAST DAY OF 2017
THE LAST DAY WHEN THE CHURCH IS CORRUPTIBLE
THE LAST DAY OF THE PENTECOST COUNT
THE LAST DAY MARTHA REFERRED TO WHEN SHE PROPHESIED THAT HER BROTHER WOULD RISE ON THE LAST DAY…..
is 826 days.
So, here we are, gentiles seeking wisdom, what is the word for Strongs Greek #826? It is "augazó": TO SHINE FORTH.
From Daniel 12, That's EXACTLY what all the Saints are going to be doing that day if the rapture occurs.
Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Interestingly enough, for Israel, as yet left behind, the Strong's Hebrew #826 is a word that means "CONJUROR".
Perhaps, for those left behind, I am sure Lucifer is planning something deceptively special with his conjurors so that those on earth, after or even along with, the rapture, will be deceived… tremendously. He will do it with magic, demons, fallen angels and lies. Glad I won't be here.
10. MUST LISTEN Steve Quayle Amerigeddon Economic collapse will be on December 31, 2017 Search in you tube with the above title.
Delete11. Pentecost started in Acts 2 but it has not ended as people are still becoming Christians. Pentecost ends with the rapture at the end of the END OF PENTECOST count, because after that, the group known as "The Church" is closed. Pentecost in Acts 2 was a picture, from the beginning of the church, of the end of the church: the rapture. The 120 disciples were 1) gathered, 2) in an upper room, 3) joyous, 4) in one accord, 5) speaking but one language, 6) lit up and shiny. All of these elements are exactly what we will see at the Rapture of the Church at the END OF PENTECOST count.
12. The Torah reading for the Sabbath, the DAY BEFORE December 31, 2017 includes the last four chapters of Genesis, ending with Genesis 50 (completion), and with Joseph’s bones being raised to be taken to the promised land. Hey Saints, it is with new flesh and bone that we "GO UP TO THE PROMISED LAND" The Scripture Reading for this Sabbath is named Va-Yechi (And He Lived). AND HE LIVED!!!! Yes saints we will be born again to immortality and we will live.
13. God wants us to know the finish line. God wants us to run the race like Paul but we cannot run a race appropriately unless we know where the finish line is. Now we know. Run appropriately. Like Zamporini in the last lap at the 36 Olympics.
14. Yes. Speculation. Not setting a date. Only God sets it. But He may have given His watchers a clue or two. If this is the date God has set so be it. If it is not the date then I am sure when the date occurs, it will also be a breathtaking display of our Lord's sovereignty over sun, moon, stars, Scripture, Feasts, Calendars (Jewish and Gregorian), nature, and the plans of Satan. You know, just like the 12/31 date would have been.
Blessings Saints. Soon we rise and shine.
If you come up with other ideas or confirmations then let me know.
Dennis L. Watson
lawtrams@aol.com
(714)936-3398
Hah! In a way I hate to do this because it may cause people to grip the handlebars a bit quicker. Here is the reason. God wants us to run a race. Paul talked about it. I do not think you can run a race well unless you see the finish line. I believe Scripture is telling us that December 31, 2017 is the rapture. Of the fourteen points I list I especially like point 10 below:
ReplyDelete1. Enoch was raptured when He was 365 years old and December 31, 2017 is day 365 of the year of the Great Sign of Revelation 12:1,2. God set this up from the beginning Saints!
2. The Resurrection of Jesus was a great sign and GOD COUNTED from Jesus' Resurrection, 7 Sabbaths and then on the next day, the fiftieth (the completion of the BEGINNING OF PENTECOST count), is when God got Pentecost in Acts 2 started. The effects of Pentecost continue UNTIL THE LAST DAY OF THE CHURCH. Now we count from the Great Sign of Revelation 12 for the END OF PENTECOST count as follows:
The Great Sign of Rev. 12:1,2 September 23, 2017
1 The first Sabbath after September 30, 2017
2 The second Sabbath October 7, 2017
3 The third Sabbath October 14, 2017
4 The fourth Sabbath October 21, 2017
5 The fifth Sabbath October 28, 2017
6 The sixth Sabbath November 4, 2017
7 The seventh Sabbath November 11, 2017
ALL SUNDAYS
1 The day after the seventh Sabbath November 12, 2017
50 The day of the end of the count December 31, 2017
Please do not be concerned that the end of Pentecost will not occur on the same day that Pentecost started. It will end when the church is COMPLETE ON DAY 50. That’s why Pentecost, in Acts 2 started on DAY 1.
3. I submit that when Martha told Jesus that she expected her dead brother Lazarus to rise "on the last day" I think it is possible that the LAST DAY was the last day of the Count or the last day the Church would be corruptible on earth. Otherwise wouldn’t you refer to the resurrection of Lazarus as his first day being resurrected? Of course, Martha did not know this, but her words were inspired by the Holy Spirit who is very much attune to Pentecost and the fact that the END OF PENTECOST will occur on the last day of its count. What is this day the LAST DAY of?
THE LAST DAY OF DECEMBER
THE LAST DAY OF 2017
THE LAST DAY WHEN THE CHURCH IS CORRUPTIBLE
THE LAST DAY OF THE PENTECOST COUNT
THE LAST DAY MARTHA REFERRED TO WHEN SHE PROPHESIED THAT HER BROTHER WOULD RISE ON THE LAST DAY…..
4. I submit that true Israel, immediately after the end of the year rapture, says the following perhaps on January 1, 2018... a statement dripping with hopelessness, Jeremiah 8:20 - "Summer is over, the harvest is past, and still we are not saved." In the Bible there are two seasons. Summer and Winter. Winter technically begins on solstice at 12/21. 10 days later Israel says, "Summer is over, the harvest (the rapture) is past (the rapture did not include us), and still we are not saved." What a sad statement. The rapture will make Israel jealous. Amen. I wonder if those 10 days of winter may refer to the "10 days of tribulation" for Smyrna in Rev 2:10.
5. Some have suggested that the rapture is a spring event (a beginning of Pentecost event) and thus use Song of Songs 2 to point out the spring-like conditions at the time the Groom is coming for the Bride. Read carefully every line of Song of Songs 2 and imagine this...the Bride is in her mansion(s) already, and she is already in heaven, the rapture is history, and it is always spring like in heaven, and the Bridegroom is coming to take her on a date as He has done apparently many times before. This is not the rapture, this is a vision of what will likely happen OFTEN as we wait the 7 years during the tribulation on earth and we get to enjoy our relationship with Jesus before we return with Him to earth in Revelation 19.